I know a million Coltrane, Brecker, etc patterns but that sound doesn't work in gospel. I've been so caught up in learning straight ahead jazz that I lost sight of the other great music that exist. Like I said transcribing and playing along in any style will force you to develop the correct phrasing, articulation, lines, and basically download a new program into the musical hard drive! That's what I'm working on thanks to all the great music that has been posted on this thread!
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Gospel Bass
- Thread starter burns_isaac
- Start date
Yep. Many gospel players are groove players. That's my style as well. It takes a lot of practice to get that feel but you will be able to incorporate a lot of the stuff you know into it the more your feel develops.
+1000
Im a straight-ahead jazz bassist, I came out of everything 50s, and 60s. I've studied, transcribed, taught, written books. I can confidently say I know my theory and I know my instrument, but when I got my Gospel gig, I left thinking "what was that!?"
So I think your experience might be the norm if you didn't grow up in the church.
If you have a confident (strong back ground) in another style, i.e. Jazz or Classical you can certainly learn Gospel. But it has to be learned. Think back to playing all those Abersold play-a-longs. You're gonna have to do that again but transcribe it.
As far as patterns theres some basic stuff you need to get up front:
Learn the basic "runs" and "walk-ups" over turnarounds (cadences)
Get use to the different note placement for 6/8 and 4/4 walk-ups.
Understand the difference between I-IV "runs" and I-V "runs".
Pickup some of the cliche turnarounds for Tags at the end of songs.
Know your harmony not just from the root up but from the 3rd up and the 7th down. The contemporary gospel stuff will use basic harmony built off an alternate bass note; i.e. Db/F (which is still just a triad but in first inversionwith the 3rd in the bass)
Start to recognize the use of pentatonic licks Major (and Minor) for fills within a progression.
Rhythmically, every era has a different feel to the beat. Be true to the the style of the arrangement.
This all relates to the way Jazz players learn the basics; Ellington or Basie endings, or cliches like The Theme to end a set, or shout choruses, etc.
The groups listed are great, I'll throw in Byron Cage, Richard Smallwood, Donnie McClurkin, and definitely Rev. James Cleveland.
Good luck, play on!
Thats a fun song. But to better show gospel chord substitution is:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyTYEeZdhK8
In addition to listening to the above mentioned Gospel artists, you might also want to check Jazz artists who have a strong Gospel feel in their playing-
Gene Harris& the 3 Sounds
early 1960s Ramsey Lewis
Les McCann
Horace Parlan
Oscar Peterson - especially the album "Very Tall"
Joe Sample
Richard Tee
Gene Harris& the 3 Sounds
early 1960s Ramsey Lewis
Les McCann
Horace Parlan
Oscar Peterson - especially the album "Very Tall"
Joe Sample
Richard Tee
I've played in Church bands for centuries (at least two of them), Most of the musos could play by ear (not I) and rarely, if ever, went to script. The singer would start a song and everyone would just "catch up". As long as I could see the keyboard players hands, or another guitar/bass I was fine. I used charts for the stuff that was on script but, for the rest, I just read another muso. My main role was rhythm guitar so, not much Bass, but I did fill in on bass on occasion with positive comments from some of the younger members of the congregation.
I have no advice to offer, but I recall being in the same boat. A contemporary gospel group played my church back in the day, and they were , I thought surprisingly, without a guitarist. Having led worship in the past and being a solid intermediate guitarist (I thought), I asked if they needed a guitar player. They said sure, and I proceeded to go to the first few practices and found myself well over my head in terms of the chords and such. Basically got my butt handed to me and, after one performance where I basically didn't play some of the time, I bowed out. Contemporary gospel music is no joke.
It sounds like a you were roasted. At times in this game the only way you end up being honest with yourself is when you are utterly helpless. The fact you are asking 'how can I get better at this?' is great. Don't be deflated or a defeated!
Your jazz knowledge would have helped if your knowledge base was more developed. The admission that you can't do a jazz gig without paper tells me that your understanding of the genre is fairly limited as well. It's absolutely not unrealistic that most jazz musicians can do a standards gig without paper, or any discussion of what the set list is pre-gig. Then you should be able to hear what is happening and react to it.
I'm no gospel expert by any means but listening to a lot of the records I can hear a lot of the information fairly easily. Countless lines are just pentatonic based, there are tritone subs and additional ii V's thrown around left and right, a lot of slash chords and chords with a lot of extensions on them. All of this stuff exists as the norm in jazz so the skills are transferable, provided the skill exist. That knowledge doesn't mean you'll be able to play gospel authentically, but it puts you in a better position off the bat of understanding whats going on around you in so many styles of music.
So many of our questions are answered in recordings. Bathe in them, transcribe more than just the bass part, analyse them, play along with them and just breathe the music. Get out to see as much as you can and pick the brains of the people playing it as well.
Your jazz knowledge would have helped if your knowledge base was more developed. The admission that you can't do a jazz gig without paper tells me that your understanding of the genre is fairly limited as well. It's absolutely not unrealistic that most jazz musicians can do a standards gig without paper, or any discussion of what the set list is pre-gig. Then you should be able to hear what is happening and react to it.
I'm no gospel expert by any means but listening to a lot of the records I can hear a lot of the information fairly easily. Countless lines are just pentatonic based, there are tritone subs and additional ii V's thrown around left and right, a lot of slash chords and chords with a lot of extensions on them. All of this stuff exists as the norm in jazz so the skills are transferable, provided the skill exist. That knowledge doesn't mean you'll be able to play gospel authentically, but it puts you in a better position off the bat of understanding whats going on around you in so many styles of music.
So many of our questions are answered in recordings. Bathe in them, transcribe more than just the bass part, analyse them, play along with them and just breathe the music. Get out to see as much as you can and pick the brains of the people playing it as well.
If you want to internalize the music Go To Church! There is no common approach to gospel music and every situation will be slightly different based on the players and the congregation which is why your ear and versatility are important. You're not going to learn the nuances from a school or a video. You need to immerse yourself in the live interaction just as with any other style of music.
That's great. Argh, now you've got me puzzling this out when I should be getting ready for bed. But I think it's 6, 2Maj, 5, 1, 2, 5, 1? (With the 2Maj and the first 1 both in first inversion (over the third) to make the nice bass line.) ?
Wow almost 10yrs on since I posted that!
I thought I'd add a comment I posted in another thread about "music prep"
...to your direct question of "efficient song prep" Using the "Number system", "Nashville Method", etc is the easiest way to quickly chart out material. You can move it to any key on the fly... but this assumes your personal comfort/scale knowledge/flexibility around the neck.
I freelance around the NYC gospel scene and I'll often get a call for 6-12 song for a performance, along with my regular church gig (of up to 11 songs each week), so the Nashville system streamlines the process.
Some thoughts to aid the process (at least it helps me...)
This sounds like alot, but it's a really effect workflow and your confidence and comfort level rises the more you work it.
Hope its helpful—
I freelance around the NYC gospel scene and I'll often get a call for 6-12 song for a performance, along with my regular church gig (of up to 11 songs each week), so the Nashville system streamlines the process.
Some thoughts to aid the process (at least it helps me...)
- General knowledge of the material is not essential but highly recommended. If your group is doing mostly 'Hillsong' material (or gospel, or Artist specific - Rev James Clevelend, Rev Timothy Wright, etc etc ) create a playlist of those top 10-20 popular song and listen whenever you get a chance. Or keep a playlist of each week's song for background reference. Being familiar with the material increases "recall".
- You WILL need to build your eartraining/transcribing skills. If those skills aren't the best (yet), in the modern era YouTube is filled with songs, tutorials, and 'covers' to help you prep.
- Write it down. Keep a ORGANIZED, TIDY book(s). If a song comes up again later in the year, you already have it and your previous efforts put you ahead of the game. (I currently have a dozen 96 page Manuscript books—just for gospel arrangements. Most weeks the selections are aready in there, so my failing memory isn't an issue.
- Make 'Index' pages for quick reference. (better yet keep a spreadsheet for quick search)
- Depending on your BL not all the 'little fills' are necessary—Focus on the bass' fundament roll, group fills/kicks, and essential groove in your charts. KISS method.
- Sometimes the arrangement is highly complex, find out if the BL plans to do the 'complete arrangement' or only (for ex) the "shout chorus". *IF you have time, chart the complete song—for the future. There have been many times Im ready to play the whole thing and find out they only want to do the chorus section.
- I'll note the key of the original, AND this weeks key as needed.
- Note the artist's version in your notes (for future reference)
- Always use a pencil
...and keep an eraser at reh. BL always want to 'gild the lily'
This sounds like alot, but it's a really effect workflow and your confidence and comfort level rises the more you work it.
Hope its helpful—
In addition to the above...
(Im about to move all my handwritten charts into Forscore app on my iPad. Im not sure how convenient iPad+pencil will be in rehearsal verses 'pencil and paper' but my gut says it'll cut down on 'duplicate' entries and arrangements with the added benefit of 'quick recall' and easy setlists via the app)
10. digitize for quick recall via PDFs and a TOC.
(Im about to move all my handwritten charts into Forscore app on my iPad. Im not sure how convenient iPad+pencil will be in rehearsal verses 'pencil and paper' but my gut says it'll cut down on 'duplicate' entries and arrangements with the added benefit of 'quick recall' and easy setlists via the app)
