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Gospel Bass

#21
burns_isaac said:
My ear is OK. I can hear diatonic intervals just fine and I transcribe a lot of walking lines, mostly Ray Brown, but if you asked my play a jazz gig but I wasn't allowed to read, I wouldn't do a great job. So to answer your question, no my ear is not at the level it should be.
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If you strap your bass on and a song starts, how close can you come to hitting a note that's part of then a song? Can you hear a note in a sing and hit that note? You need to be able to.

Whatever you do, don't be discouraged if you can't immediately learn songs by ear. It takes time. One thing that will help is if you can memorize the pitch of the notes of the strings. Then, all you need to do is find the notes between them and that's a lot easier than having to find a needle in a haystack- if you memorize the notes of the strings, you'll have less notes to search for.
 
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#22
Gospel music is all about patterns. Are you comfortable with the "number" system? When you listen to the gospel music and trace out the progressions and learn the turnarounds it becomes more predictable. The best way to learn is to simply sit down and pick the music apart by ear. Don't let the re-harmonizations throw you off. You might want to take a song like Chris Tomlin's How great is our God and then find a gospel version-- Jonathan Nelson has a good, and see how the song is re-arranged. The substitutions and turnarounds are what give the "gospel" flavor. I hope this helps?
 
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#24
johnnyPARKER said:
Gospel music is all about patterns. Are you comfortable with the "number" system? When you listen to the gospel music and trace out the progressions and learn the turnarounds it becomes more predictable. The best way to learn is to simply sit down and pick the music apart by ear. Don't let the re-harmonizations throw you off. You might want to take a song like Chris Tomlin's How great is our God and then find a gospel version-- Jonathan Nelson has a good, and see how the song is re-arranged. The substitutions and turnarounds are what give the "gospel" flavor. I hope this helps?
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I was going to recommend that song as well. Check out:

He's Able - Deidrick Haddon

Then watch He's Able Bass Cover by Sharay Reed. You'll be busy for a long time:D
 
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#25
@johnnyParker, man what a great idea! Some may accuse me of being overly analytical but I don't feel comfortable until I can fully assimilate songs both intellectually and aurally, that is of course if I don't have a chart. Give me a chart( see crutch) Im good to go but take that that crutch away and that's a different story, unless its a reading gig in which case everyone is reading otherwise there wouldn't be any music happening i.e a pit gig. What I've learned today is, ear training, ear training, ear training. Music doesn't happen on paper.
 
#27
If you are interested in learning the chords and exploring the harmonies I often find help from this site Link Removed

It notates the chords in a very untraditional way to a variety of contemporary and traditional black gospel songs. The music does have to be in you in the sense that you take the time learn the tendencies, subtleties, note choices, etc. of gospel or any music and get that inside of you. It is already second nature to those who grew up with it but can be accomplished by anybody with the work ethic I believe.
 
#29
AndrewFord said:
If you are interested in learning the chords and exploring the harmonies I often find help from this site Link Removed
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Great site. Just copied their "As The Deer" and then compared with our Praise version of "As The Deer". Some things I noticed:
I have long asserted that every lyric syllable gets a melody note or at least a beat. That is very apparent in the Gospel version.
We both start on 1 for As the The Gospel version then will use the 7 under deer The praise is still using the 1 chord. Panteth will have a 3 and the praise is still content with the 1. Now we both go to the 6 on for the and then Praise will grab a 1 for water and Gospel will be using a 5 then 1. I do like the 6-5-1 movement better than what we use in our Praise rendition. I think this nails it if you are looking for something to tie the difference to.....
​
Many more changes, much more going on, and I do join with the ones that have pointed out that you must attend gospel services and sing gospels music to understand gospel.

A Traditional service is not like a Praise service and a Gospel service is not like either of those two. All three are different. You have to have been there to witness the difference. There is much more Holy Spirit taking over in Gospel. But, yet there are patterns and they are repeated so there is structure, you have to hear it I can not explain it here; it's a feel thing.
 
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#30
I appreciate it gentlemen! I have listened to the music of Fred Hammond, Kim Burrell, Kirk Franklin, etc but only listened with the intent of worshipping. I have not listened in the sense of purposefully listening for the sake of hearing the music. This past weekend you better believe I spent the better part of my shed time with the music, headphones, and pencil and paper. When I was growing up my dad always had Cannonball and Bill Evans's album Know What I Mean? playing. I was physically hearing it but I wasn't hearing with my minds ear. I'd try to pick out phrases and stuff on my trombone but I hadn't spent anytime internalizing the music so as you can imagine it was very frustrating and I didn't get anywhere with it. I love the chorded songs site and will definitely be using it alongside my transcription process. Just like with Jazz, you can know all of the progressions and theory on paper and that's great but without some considerable time spent listening and emulating, you will always just be another guy up there trying to play and you will sound like you've never listened to jazz before and I mean really listen. Thanks again gentlemen!
 
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#31
MalcolmAmos said:
Great site. Just copied their "As The Deer" and then compared with our Praise version of "As The Deer". Some things I noticed:
I have long asserted that every lyric syllable gets a melody note or at least a beat. That is very apparent in the Gospel version.
We both start on 1 for As the The Gospel version then will use the 7 under deer The praise is still using the 1 chord. Panteth will have a 3 and the praise is still content with the 1. Now we both go to the 6 on for the and then Praise will grab a 1 for water and Gospel will be using a 5 then 1. I do like the 6-5-1 movement better than what we use in our Praise rendition. I think this nails it if you are looking for something to tie the difference to.....
​
Many more changes, much more going on, and I do join with the ones that have pointed out that you must attend gospel services and sing gospels music to understand gospel.

.
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Keep in mind it is not like looking at a chord site, it is like looking at a tab site. They are "chording" out a specific performance and trying to give a solo keys player the tools to copy a band for his accompaniment. So instead of giving just the chords they are giving you every passing note to hit
 
#32
The more the merrier! Hopefully they will help me with better voice leading and developing some of my own "bass runs." I've been listening to and trying to transcribe some Thad tribbett and Sharay Reed ideas. Man those guys are monsters! Also, it seems like a lot of this gospel bass is interchangeable with other styles as well so hopefully I'm killing 2 birds with 1 stone here. Thanks again for all of the great advice and resources gentlemen! Keep it coming!
 
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#34
Sub'd.

... Because I'm a white kid from South Dakota and have found myself in an all-black urban gospel band sorta by accident. Lol (It's pretty awesome, by the way. NEVER thought I'd be playing for a gospel band!) Ten vocalists, two keys players, myself, drums and the band leader likes to run a sequencer with us for some strings, bass drops (old school 808 type stuff) and additional parts. AND HOLY CRAP WE'RE LOUD. Lol

The main keys player is really good... He throws out a lot of those really cool chords you're talking about and he loves me because I can echo almost any line he throws at me. We're constantly adding runs and hits and stuff and "hey man, check THIS out." No charts. :)

Unfortunately the best advice I can give is... Practice. Practice practice practice. Go listen to everything people have mentioned and listen specifically to what the bass is doing and try to learn it by ear. No cheating with charts... If you can find them. Lol

Sharay Reed is KILLIN' IT:
Invalid Link Removed
http://youtu.be/q_KuD0AjWdE

Also check out Andrew Gouche and Maurice Fitzgerald to name a couple bassists specifically.

Another good starting point for listening would also be any/all of the WOW Gospel cds. I checked them all out from my local library!

5sg.
 
#35
fivestringgecko said:
Sub'd.

... Because I'm a white kid from South Dakota and have found myself in an all-black urban gospel band sorta by accident. Lol (It's pretty awesome, by the way. NEVER thought I'd be playing for a gospel band!) Ten vocalists, two keys players, myself, drums and the band leader likes to run a sequencer with us for some strings, bass drops (old school 808 type stuff) and additional parts. AND HOLY CRAP WE'RE LOUD. Lol

The main keys player is really good... He throws out a lot of those really cool chords you're talking about and he loves me because I can echo almost any line he throws at me. We're constantly adding runs and hits and stuff and "hey man, check THIS out." No charts. :)

Unfortunately the best advice I can give is... Practice. Practice practice practice. Go listen to everything people have mentioned and listen specifically to what the bass is doing and try to learn it by ear. No cheating with charts... If you can find them. Lol

Sharay Reed is KILLIN' IT:
Invalid Link Removed
http://youtu.be/q_KuD0AjWdE

Also check out Andrew Gouche and Maurice Fitzgerald to name a couple bassists specifically.

Another good starting point for listening would also be any/all of the WOW Gospel cds. I checked them all out from my local library!

5sg.
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Good examples. Maurice is on the Bishop Larry Trotter link I posted earlier. If the OP wants something to warm up with I suggest this by Fred Hammond
 
#36
Gospel is one of the coolest genres to play bass for IMO. It combines elements of countless other styles of music and puts the soul into it. I've grown up playing in church and, as such, I'm "ear heavy" in my playing and can improv, feel/hold down the groove, etc. but when it comes to solo stuff or "showing off my chops" I'm *bad.* Give me a pocket with a solid drummer and I'm ready to go...I'm working on my technical, blazing speed, and arpeggiation, Pattituci style madness but there's not a lot I enjoy more than the pocket and soul of a great gospel song.
 
#37
Michael Henson said:
Gospel is one of the coolest genres to play bass for IMO. It combines elements of countless other styles of music and puts the soul into it.

... but there's not a lot I enjoy more than the pocket and soul of a great gospel song.
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Agreed, on both counts. My funk background has really come into play for my gospel band, I'm pretty sure that's part of how/why I ended up in the group.

This is probably my favorite Fred Hammond song... Man, what a hot bass line. :bassist:

Invalid Link Removed

5sg.
 
#38
Sounds to me like you are having issues with the chords, runs, etc and not the rhythm? If so, keep in mind that most gospel songs are very simple repeating patterns (chord progressions). The difference is that the bass rarely plays the root. That is why the chords sound so different in that at any particular time you may be playing the 3rd, 6th, flat 5th, flat 6th, etc.
So the progression may be actually only a few different chord intervals, but because the bass it playing many different chord tones it sounds like a lot more. For example, check out Micah Stampley: “Worthy to be Praised”. The progression is a 6, 2Maj, 1, 2, 5, 1 where the bass does uses a leading tone walking through the 3rds, which ends up being a chromatic tone lead from the 5th to the 3rd of the key. Dissect this some and you will be on your way to understanding gospel.
Also, the runs are mostly pentatonic in nature with an altered note thrown in. I.e. 6, 1, 3, flat 5, 3-2-3, 1, 6.
Hope this helps, good luck.
 
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#39
I'm starting to find that out. It wasn't the chords or the progressions that were throwing me. When the pianists was trying to show me what's up, now I know after doing some transcriptions, he was not playing the root in his left hand. I know he isn't supposed to but for the purposes of showing me a line he was, as you said, playing the 3rd or 5th or 6th. An exercise I was thinking that may help me in this is playing through all of my arpeggios, not just the major and minor diatonic modes but ALL of moving through the inversions. I did this a few years ago but a refresher is needed. Either way its just music. The more I transcribe the better of a grip Ill get on it.
 
#40
Im not into church or church music, but in my experience gospel players are some of the best players out there. I have jammed with some on the past and they are just the nicest guys for having such monster chops.

It takes a lot of soul and feel. Like posted above you have to learn the different licks and patterns..get real comfortable with it and you can then go into a show and just let go and let your inner groove take over.

Once you learn the concepts, the most important part is always the same - make it feel great.
 

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