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Got fired from two bands, help a brother improve his groove!

sleeplessknight

sleeplessknight

Supporting Member
Mar 8, 2002
1,525
826
Montana Mountainside
www.leewhalen.net
#1
So, in the last six months I have been let go from not one, but TWO high-level bands with "our drummer just isn't locking in with you". Once is a fluke. Twice, the problem is me, and damn any 'confounding issues'. The problem is, I... don't hear it. A common thread between the two bands is the keyboard player - when I got let go from Band #1, he brought me over to Band #2 specifically because he liked my playing, and couldn't understand what was the deal in Band #1. Band #2 just voted me out from this last gig, with nary a word to me about 'hey man, you're sucking'. Keyboard player called me up with the news and was like "I just don't understand it, but you've been voted off the island". I don't have any recordings from Band #1, but I just happened to record this past weekend's gig from Band #2, and have the files here:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed] (right-click, choose 'Save As...'; if the bass seems too low in the mix, check out the BassBoost directory. Same files, bass boosted +2.0 dB)

Brethren and Sistren of bass, I would be forever indebted to you if you could listen to as much of the above tracks (there's three - one for each set, each about an hour long except for Set 3 where my batteries ran out) and give me BRUTAL, HONEST, constructive criticism of *** I'm doing wrong (if anything). I am not hearing a problem in the above tracks. Aside from a couple of hiccups here and there, maybe some stiffness early in the first set, I think it's fine modern-country-cover-band bass playing. All I know is that this is the SECOND time in six months I've been let go with the SAME comment re: 'not locking in', 'just not working out', and whatever it is I need to change. Please, for the music, my career, and my sanity, unload with both barrels so I can improve.
 
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#3
Heh, that's funny - I'm going about half-strength with my Mesa Eight:88 through a HT-322 (at the very least, we know a lack of high-quality gear is DEFINITELY not my problem), and was asked at the very beginning to turn down a touch :-) The only modification I did to these tracks was to cut the audience chatter at the beginning/end of each track, and gave the whole thing a little nudge of compression through Audacity, specifically to bring the bass up :-) This was recorded off a Zoom H4N about 15' from the front of the stage.
 
#6
Not too sure, but I think maybe you're coming in a hair behind the beat. Sometimes that's what you want, but in some of these it sounds like it's dragging. That was on the first two tracks. In the third one, Save a Horse definitely doesn't have the right groove, but I'm not sure if it's you. Drummer might be rushing just slightly, it's not breathing. On Smooth, it doesn't feel Latin at all, and there I do think it starts with the drummer. He sounds like he's pounding out a rock tune and I don't think anyone could save that. What's he hitting all those cymbals for? So bottom line, yeah, I think you can work on your groove some more, but I don't think it's all you.
 
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#7
sleeplessknight said:
I just re-uploaded new MP3s in the 'BassBoost' sub-directory. Same MP3s, but I goosed the bass +2.0dB. Hopefully that'll bring out the bottom a bit better!
Click to expand...
Even with the bass boosted it's still very low in the mix. But here's a question........when you play, are you conscious to what the drummer is doing and are you working as a team or do you just play your parts independently? Not saying you don't but many bassists and drummers don't listen to each other.

You said the recorder was right off the stage? Whoever asked you to turn down had you WAY down! Does he not like bass? I own a Zoom H1 and I get plenty of bass in my recordings. You're barely there in your recordings.
 
#8
That is a very good question. When I play, I am 'humming' the drummer's parts in my head as he plays them. I've always (discreetly, I'm not beat-boxing on stage or anything) got the hi-hat rhythm going with my tongue, and the bass drum pattern in tapping my feet. Anything else I can fit in there (a la snare hits, toms, etc) is just a bonus.
 
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#10
Honestly, I would have a convo with the drummer and ask for some constructive criticism. I don't think it's a locking in issue as it seems you're right there with him (what I could hear). Maybe it's note choice or volume. Some drummers really need to feel the bass. I get asked to turn up all the time by drummers but most times they don't have a monitor as I always feel I'm already pretty loud.
 
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#11
sleeplessknight said:
That is a very good question. When I play, I am 'humming' the drummer's parts in my head as he plays them. I've always (discreetly, I'm not beat-boxing on stage or anything) got the hi-hat rhythm going with my tongue, and the bass drum pattern in tapping my feet. Anything else I can fit in there (a la snare hits, toms, etc) is just a bonus.
Click to expand...

Maybe being so low in the mix while singing the drummer's part over his playing has something to do with it?

I'm kidding, but at some point you have to internalize the groove and relax to play it.

You can practice and improve you timekeeping, but if you don't feel the groove you can't play it. Do you like dancing?
 
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#12
Spin Doctor: Nope, these are Top-40 country and rock covers

DW: It is VERY interesting that you say that. There are some 'confounding factors' that I hypothesize may have contributed. I don't want to post them here just yet because I want the focus to be on what is being played, not on what has been said/exhibited/done elsewhere.

OneDrop: I *hate* dancing. H-A-T-E it. I love helping other people dance, and I love watching people do it, but I myself am a *terrible* dancer. The whitest of the white. Folks describe someone as having 'two left feet'? I have 'two left stumps'. All my rhythm and 'fonk' and soul is from the elbows down (...heh) :-)
 
#13
sleeplessknight said:
OneDrop: I *hate* dancing. H-A-T-E it. I love helping other people dance, and I love watching people do it, but I myself am a *terrible* dancer. The whitest of the white. Folks describe someone as having 'two left feet'? I have 'two left stumps'. All my rhythm and 'fonk' and soul is from the elbows down (...heh) :)
Click to expand...

Do you think this might be partly a reason?

Some people just feel it more than others, and I honestly don't think you can play what you don't feel.

I'm not saying this is the problem, far from it. Just something to consider as a possibility.
 
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#18
sleeplessknight said:
Perhaps we should take this side-conversation to a PM, but to answer your question - no, but I might not be fully understanding the question.
Click to expand...

When I hear most 'civilians' clapping to music or snapping their fingers it's obvious they either don't clearly hear the beat, or they aren't able to coordinate their bodies to sound the beats correctly. Either way they don't groove.

But a good musician can swing you just by snapping their fingers or clapping, because they really nail the rhythm and feel the time within.

Sorry if I'm rambling, but I've noticed some people just swing and groove whatever they do, speaking, moving, sports, etc, and some not at all,and many are all kinds of in between. I still have no idea what comes first, the internal time or the physical expression of it, or if they simply reinforce each other over time.
 
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#20
sleeplessknight said:
So, in the last six months I have been let go from not one, but TWO high-level bands with "our drummer just isn't locking in with you". Once is a fluke. Twice, the problem is me, and damn any 'confounding issues'. The problem is, I... don't hear it. A common thread between the two bands is the keyboard player - when I got let go from Band #1, he brought me over to Band #2 specifically because he liked my playing, and couldn't understand what was the deal in Band #1. Band #2 just voted me out from this last gig, with nary a word to me about 'hey man, you're sucking'. Keyboard player called me up with the news and was like "I just don't understand it, but you've been voted off the island". I don't have any recordings from Band #1, but I just happened to record this past weekend's gig from Band #2, and have the files here:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed] (right-click, choose 'Save As...'; if the bass seems too low in the mix, check out the BassBoost directory. Same files, bass boosted +2.0 dB)

Brethren and Sistren of bass, I would be forever indebted to you if you could listen to as much of the above tracks (there's three - one for each set, each about an hour long except for Set 3 where my batteries ran out) and give me BRUTAL, HONEST, constructive criticism of *** I'm doing wrong (if anything). I am not hearing a problem in the above tracks. Aside from a couple of hiccups here and there, maybe some stiffness early in the first set, I think it's fine modern-country-cover-band bass playing. All I know is that this is the SECOND time in six months I've been let go with the SAME comment re: 'not locking in', 'just not working out', and whatever it is I need to change. Please, for the music, my career, and my sanity, unload with both barrels so I can improve.
Click to expand...

First of all ... that band is not a high level band ... They are moderately good,
Second ... you are totally buried in the mix ... I can't tell if you are good or bad from those recordings.
Third ... if you want to make a career in music then your better find a rich uncle or rich girlfriend. Very few people get rich playing music.

Perhaps the firings are more due to personality conflicts rather than your playing.

Maybe get an active 5 string bass and turn up louder.
 
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