Double Bass Grace Designs Felix

[dukeorock]

Just got my Felix, which I ordered from my local GC to make returning it easier should it not be what I'm after. Had no time to try it before heading out for two out of town gigs, but brought it along to try in soundcheck. This is a doubling gig so I typically bring a Michael Pope MPP2, which is pretty good for upright and not my cup of tea for electric, but not bad. I also run an Ashly 31 band graphic eq in the upright cahannels effects loops to fight tough rooms. Too many gain stages, I know! Using a GK MB800 for power on this trip, though I also have a Crest ProLite 2.0. I play in really loud bands

After a quick read through the Felix's manual, I tried running it through the MB800 (set neutral as possible) to get a feel for it. It sounded really good very quickly. I intentionally cranked some lows and cranked the amp to test the notch filter. Eliminated the feedback very quickly, but the notch was perhaps a bit too extreme? Took away too much low end for me, but again, this was a very quick test.

Once I got the Felix sounding as best I could get it (which was very good), I asked my bandmates to do a quick a/b listening test. They both preferred the Pope/31 band combo citing better mids and note definition, so I decided to stick with that until I could try the Felix more extensively at home. For what it's worth, I thought the Felix was warmer sounding and hold out hope I can figure it out and use it to its full potential after I school myself on the unit a bit more.

 

[cacophonic]

I asked my bandmates to do a quick a/b listening test. They both preferred the Pope/31 band combo citing better mids and note definition...

Well, there's the problem. Maybe the question should not be "which do you prefer," but instead "which sounds more like the natural unamplified sound of my bass?" Given the option, bandmates will have you using a BP-100 with the mids cranked to 11 and everything else rolled-off as much as possible.

 

[Ric Vice]

Well, there's the problem. Maybe the question should not be "which do you prefer," but instead "which sounds more like the natural unamplified sound of my bass?" Given the option, bandmates will have you using a BP-100 with the mids cranked to 11 and everything else rolled-off as much as possible.

LOL

 

[dukeorock]

Well, there's the problem. Maybe the question should not be "which do you prefer," but instead "which sounds more like the natural unamplified sound of my bass?" Given the option, bandmates will have you using a BP-100 with the mids cranked to 11 and everything else rolled-off as much as possible.

What bands do you play in, brother?! To be honest, I'm not giving up on the Felix just yet...just haven't had any spare time to mess with it. The Michael Pope pre is also a very serious, high end pre, so I'm not hurting either way. At some point this week, I'm hoping to give it another spin if I can find the time. One long session and seven gigs in four days. The coffee will be nearby at all times

 

[cacophonic]

What bands do you play in, brother?!

Touché. This first came up when I was playing in some big bands. Over time I learned that for many musicians the bass functions more as their click track. More to the point, it's possible that your bandmates have simply become accustomed to the sound that you get with the Pope rig and that's what they're listening for. But it's your bass and your voice, and I think you are entitled to create a sound that you like and that expresses what you want to say.

Thinking back, I cannot recall one single instance in which a trumpet, guitar, violin, mandolin, or ANY etc. player solicited my opinion on his/her tone and adjusted to suit my taste. However there have been a couple of drummers who tuned the kick and/or a tom to work better with upright, godblessem.

To be honest, I'm not giving up on the Felix just yet...just haven't had any spare time to mess with it. The Michael Pope pre is also a very serious, high end pre, so I'm not hurting either way. At some point this week, I'm hoping to give it another spin if I can find the time. One long session and seven gigs in four days. The coffee will be nearby at all times

No doubt that with your tech expertise you can forge a happy relationship with FELiX, especially if you spend as much time with it as you have with your current gear.

 

[dukeorock]

Touché. This first came up when I was playing in some big bands. Over time I learned that for many musicians the bass functions more as their click track. More to the point, it's possible that your bandmates have simply become accustomed to the sound that you get with the Pope rig and that's what they're listening for. But it's your bass and your voice, and I think you are entitled to create a sound that you like and that expresses what you want to say.

Thinking back, I cannot recall one single instance in which a trumpet, guitar, violin, mandolin, or ANY etc. player solicited my opinion on his/her tone and adjusted to suit my taste. However there have been a couple of drummers who tuned the kick and/or a tom to work better with upright, godblessem.


No doubt that with your tech expertise you can forge a happy relationship with FELiX, especially if you spend as much time with it as you have with your current gear.

'Expertise' is way too kind of you! I do like messing around with gear and as we all know, getting an upright sounding great at high SPL is not just difficult, it's a moving target from gig to gig. I've yet to see an acoustic pre with such an impressive feature set as FELIX for upright bass, so I'm still optimistic

 

[Ric Vice]

'Expertise' is way too kind of you! I do like messing around with gear and as we all know, getting an upright sounding great at high SPL is not just difficult, it's a moving target from gig to gig. I've yet to see an acoustic pre with such an impressive feature set as FELIX for upright bass, so I'm still optimistic

+1 I'm in serious contention for the Felix, especially since it's made stateside. Having to ship a box overseas, for repairs, get's very tricky because of import/export duties. My Ehrlund Pickup has to run into a high quality pre amp.

Ric

 

[dukeorock]

+1 I'm in serious contention for the Felix, especially since it's made stateside. Having to ship a box overseas, for repairs, get's very tricky because of import/export duties. My Ehrlund Pickup has to run into a high quality pre amp.

Ric

I need a lot more time on it to give an opinion that would be worth considering. I do think it has a very warm, yet natural open sound so far

 

[Ric Vice]

I need a lot more time on it to give an opinion that would be worth considering. I do think it has a very warm, yet natural open sound so far

DoR,
Warm and Natural are very positive things when I'm looking at a Pre Amp. That's what I like about the Headway EDB-2. Hopefully, between you and Catophonic. I can get a good picture of what the Felix offers. Although I have two Walter Woods
amps, I'm not likely to invest any more in them. They've really performed beautifully, but they lack DI's, low cut filters, etc. The Felix has the quality built and features I'm interested in. I'm used to having a full two channel pre amp, and that's what I'd like to get this time out. Michael Pope designed the Fodera Private Practice Amp I use all the time, it's unfortunate that he's stop building his pre amps.


Ric

 

[flatback]

I have just been recording with this damn Remic mic and then last night since it was on the bass I brought it to the gig and plugged it in (I had the idea just to turn it up a wee bit and mix with the PU) and also I brought the Wizzy 10 rather then the MAS46 which is far less prone to feedback (because it is so directional) and low and behold I had a fantastic mic/PU blend into the Focus....I went back over this thread because I think the Felix will be a great Pre for blending....I can sure see a Felix on the floor with an AI SL or some other purely amp module at the cab. On the other hand for a thousand bucks I also really want to see what Sonic Farm comes up with. Im sure it wont blend a mic but it might not have to....

 

[cacophonic]

I do think it has a very warm, yet natural open sound so far

I'd characterize mine as being neutral rather than warm. Without turning any knobs (all at their null positions), if I feed it warm then warm comes out. If I feed it cold, then cold comes out. Then there are all those knobs...

Looking at the picture of your rig in #41, you've obviously spent some time tweaking the sliders to get your current sound and it seems probable that you'll need to spend a bit of time with the FELiX to get that kind of overall curve. It is possible to daisy-chain the two channels which would give you two parametric bands (assuming you don't need to use both channels independently), but that kind of defeats the purpose.

To recap my previous posts, I really don't think that a player looking for a preamp that offers warm or fat or luscious or tube-like or bright or any other kind of idiomatic voicing will find what they're seeking with the FELiX--it's a rather neutral preamp much like Grace's studio products. What sets it apart is the dual-channel design (think two channel strips), the feature set, and the quality.

I'd like to post some clips but haven't had time. It's been a crazy busy summer and will continue to be so until at least the end of August. I've been home just a handful of days since June to play gigs I'd committed to, and one thing I can report is that FELiX has played well with PA systems and engineers on the 4 gigs I've done.

-bob

 

[cacophonic]

... I play in really loud bands

Meant to comment on that, because I'm in the same situation. Quieter gigs in small rooms are more forgiving, with the bass itself providing much or most of the sound and the electronics adding just enough to balance the louder instruments. We should be so lucky. Playing in loud bands and/or big venues means that the amplification chain is more critical, as the only sound the audience will hear is that which comes from the pickup. And we all know just how difficult it is to get an authentic double bass sound from a pickup--any pickup. And then there's the guy or gal behind the board adding his/her own interpretation of how a double bass should sound. And then there's the epic struggle with feedback... almost makes ya wanna buy wunna themthere bass git-tars and be done with it.

 

[dukeorock]

Meant to comment on that, because I'm in the same situation. Quieter gigs in small rooms are more forgiving, with the bass itself providing much or most of the sound and the electronics adding just enough to balance the louder instruments. We should be so lucky. Playing in loud bands and/or big venues means that the amplification chain is more critical, as the only sound the audience will hear is that which comes from the pickup. And we all know just how difficult it is to get an authentic double bass sound from a pickup--any pickup. And then there's the guy or gal behind the board adding his/her own interpretation of how a double bass should sound. And then there's the epic struggle with feedback... almost makes ya wanna buy wunna themthere bass git-tars and be done with it.

I get that you're at least half joking

Sometimes in a loud band in a tricky room getting the upright to sound decent makes me wonder, BUT even when I've had to compromise tone for volume, the upright still has enough of a different feel that it's worth it to me. No gigs this weekend and I gotta get a few cabs built for customers, but I do plan to try to make time with FELIX and see what can it can do

 

[dukeorock]

Looking at the picture of your rig in #41, you've obviously spent some time tweaking the sliders to get your current sound and it seems probable that you'll need to spend a bit of time with the FELiX to get that kind of overall curve. It is possible to daisy-chain the two channels which would give you two parametric bands (assuming you don't need to use both channels independently), but that kind of defeats the purpose.

Why do you think so? Just curious

 

[cacophonic]

I get that you're at least half joking

At least half. Usually.

Why do you think so? Just curious

Well, let's see... you have the Ashly set to function as a HPF/LPF and in between there is a whole lotta shakin' goin' on: -5 @ 40; +5 @ 80; -5 @ 250; +5 @ 500; then a gentle slope to 0 @ 2k followed by a steep notch-like cut to -15 @ 3.15k; then rising steeply to peak at +10 @ 5k, then another steep cut to -15@ 10k. That, piled on top of any tone shaping you're doing with the Pope, amounts to some pretty drastic EQ-ing, with 10 to 25dB of changes over a single octave. But hey, drastic measures are sometimes necessary given the pickups we have to choose from and the venues we play (and it's rather obvious why your bandmates missed the midrange boost you have with that rig). FELiX can certainly handle the HPF and the midrange cut at 250, but you may have to work a bit to approximate the roller-coaster ride between 2k and 10k. Using the FELiX's EQ section, you may find that a different approach will give you what you want but it might take some patience to get there from where you are now.

Just my take on it, of course.

-bob

 

[dukeorock]

At least half. Usually.



Well, let's see... you have the Ashly set to function as a HPF/LPF and in between there is a whole lotta shakin' goin' on: -5 @ 40; +5 @ 80; -5 @ 250; +5 @ 500; then a gentle slope to 0 @ 2k followed by a steep notch-like cut to -15 @ 3.15k; then rising steeply to peak at +10 @ 5k, then another steep cut to -15@ 10k. That, piled on top of any tone shaping you're doing with the Pope, amounts to some pretty drastic EQ-ing, with 10 to 25dB of changes over a single octave. But hey, drastic measures are sometimes necessary given the pickups we have to choose from and the venues we play (and it's rather obvious why your bandmates missed the midrange boost you have with that rig). FELiX can certainly handle the HPF and the midrange cut at 250, but you may have to work a bit to approximate the roller-coaster ride between 2k and 10k. Using the FELiX's EQ section, you may find that a different approach will give you what you want but it might take some patience to get there from where you are now.

Just my take on it, of course.

-bob

Thanks for taking the time to help, Bob! I should point out that I was hoping to use FELIX instead of the Pope, not in addition to it. I also start every soundcheck with the 31 band bypassed and only add it in if needed

 

[cacophonic]

Thanks for taking the time to help, Bob! I should point out that I was hoping to use FELIX instead of the Pope, not in addition to it. I also start every soundcheck with the 31 band bypassed and only add it in if needed

Thanks for clarifying the way you use the Ashly. I is reel stoopid sumtimes (and just plain stupid the rest of the time) and failed to grasp your explanation that the Ashly's job is "to fight tough rooms," and so I thought you intended to use the FELiX to replace both the Pope and the Ashly. It all makes perfect sense now. I've never used a Pope pre, but it seems likely that getting the Grace to suffice in place of the MPP2 should be quite doable.

What pickup(s) are you using?

-Bob

 

[dukeorock]

Thanks for clarifying the way you use the Ashly. I is reel stoopid sumtimes (and just plain stupid the rest of the time) and failed to grasp your explanation that the Ashly's job is "to fight tough rooms," and so I thought you intended to use the FELiX to replace both the Pope and the Ashly. It all makes perfect sense now. I've never used a Pope pre, but it seems likely that getting the Grace to suffice in place of the MPP2 should be quite doable.

What pickup(s) are you using?

-Bob

My main live bass (a Blast Cult) uses a Blast Cult pickup, which I like ok. It's actually two pickups but I never use the under the fingerboard pickup.

I did some more testing today using the Felix straight into a GK MB800. I don't love or hate that amp. Does the job Hopefully, I'll get to run it straight into a poweramp later today. I tried this setup with two different cabs and it seemed to prefer one cab over the other, which sucks because the one it liked least has been my main cab lately :/

 

[cacophonic]

My main live bass (a Blast Cult) uses a Blast Cult pickup, which I like ok. It's actually two pickups but I never use the under the fingerboard pickup.

I did some more testing today using the Felix straight into a GK MB800. I don't love or hate that amp. Does the job Hopefully, I'll get to run it straight into a poweramp later today. I tried this setup with two different cabs and it seemed to prefer one cab over the other, which sucks because the one it liked least has been my main cab lately :/

Ah yes...the Blast Cult. I hear that they're disposable.

It can be hard to tell just what the electronics are doing while playing the bass in the same room as the speaker, as at least some of what we are hearing is the bass itself (along with phase issues). What I've been doing is recording tracks directly from the pickup trying to keep the signal as clean as possible with no EQ, then playing the recorded tracks back through the rig while searching for a good sound. The Grace has a headphone output that can be somewhat handy for this, but there's still bleed through the phones and, as you of all people would know, the speaker is a very important part of the equation.

 

[chris dammann]

Has anyone used one of these with a passive electric bass?