Unless it really needs to be a micro power amp unit, the other option might be something like Crest Prolite amps. They are are excellent sounding, featherweight, extremely reliable and very high power. And affordable. I wouldn't trust the Demeter without bringing a backup. With a unit like the Crest you get two power amps in one package. I guess it's appealing to have the stealth gear on the band stand, but the Crest fits in a rack gig bag and can be stashed behind the cab.
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Double Bass Grace Designs Felix
- Thread starter flatback
- Start date
Why? You already have a Focus. It's small, powerful, clean, reliable, and it weighs less than the cables. What's more, its full preamp is always there in case you ever want or need it.
-bob
FELiX finally arrived last Thursday. Unfortunately I departed for a rather long road trip Saturday and had very little time to get acquainted, but for interested parties here are my intial impressions based on a few hours with the new box.
FELiX is definitely not the Cadillac of preamps--it's the Rolls Royce. It is, as you probably figured, directly descended from Grace's high-end studio gear and that lineage shows in every detail from the 1/4" thick aluminum top panel to the pots, knobs, and switches, to the the individual components on the boards.
I had a friend coming by to record viola and cello parts for some string quartet arrangements (she's a very capable one-woman quartet and had already tracked the violins). On a whim, I put FELiX to work immediately as a mic preamp (AKG C451) and with the LPF set at about 120Hz and all of the EQ controls set to neutral (there's no defeat or bypass for the EQ), the mic feed was just what you'd expect from a Grace product--clean, uncolored, and noise free with lots of gain available and effortless headroom. We were both pleased. I had only about an hour to experiment with bass. My rock axe is a 2007 Shen Rogeri willow strung with Obligatos and a Zyex E. It's fitted with a Shertler Stat-B and a copper foil Realist (as a backup). FELiX handled both beatifully, with and without the Shertler preamp as the 12V power worked well with the Stat-B. Compared with the EDB-2, which according to the manual is "voiced for warmth, clarity & low noise," FELIX definitely seemed more neutral, with noticeably fuller low end with stronger fundamentals from the E and A string. By comparison, the EDB-2 had a slightly honky sound in the midrange that made for a more bass guitar-like tone, and the EDB-2 adds more noise and hiss than the Grace (maybe it's just my unit, but despite Headway's claims my EDB-2 is not particularly quiet). The EDB-2 edged-out FELiX when playing arco using the Realist, the voicing definitly flattered the Realist under the bow in the middle register. The biggest (pun intended) downside of the FELiX is it's size and weight. It is, perhaps by necessity, a behemoth compared to the ultra-compact Headway (see photo if I can figure out how to upload). It also requires AC power, a blessing and a potential curse if there's no convenient outlet.
Initial conclusion: The biggest advantage that FELiX offers is probably the feature set--two totally independent, switchable, and blendable channels each with a complete EQ section, and quality of components, materials, and construction that has no equal in products of this type. Bassists who don't need the features that FELiX offers would probably be just as happy with the Headway or similar preamp for a lot less $, but those who can really utilize the FELiX's capabilities will be plumb tickled.
If there's further interest I'll try to post more later this month.
-bob
- Mar 8, 2011
- 12,232
- 51,187
- Disclosures
- Authorized greenboy designs builder/Owner of BNA Audio
Update to post #26
After a couple of weeks of rehearsals and two live gigs, FELiX has lived up to expectations. It has worked very well with both my Schertler Stat-B and copper Realist, and interfaced flawlessly with modest and intermediate-level house PA systems as well as my AI amps (note that for both gigs I left the rig at home and ran FELiX directly through the PA). For those who mic their bass, sorry but other than the recording exercise described in #26, I did not use a mic and can't comment on blending a mic with a pickup.
There are a few small details that I would change if it were up to me. Below are some suggestions that I forwarded to Grace for their consideration:
As for the sound, FELiX is as described previously in post #26--neutral, uncolored, effortless. I would like to make a correction to my characterization of the EDB-2 in #26, in which I described a certain honkiness in the midrange. Upon re-reading the EDB-2 manual I discovered a discrepancy in stated input impedance specifications that might explain the perceived coloration. In trying to match both units as closely as possible, I set the FELiX input impedance to 1M and, referring to the EDB manual, selected the Active/Low impedance setting, which the Specifications section listed as 1M. But during a subsequent re-reading of the Features section of the manual I found that paragraph 3.1.3 lists the impedance of the Active/Low setting as "<50k." 50k seems a more reasonable figure for an active source, so I suspect that the 1M spec in the Specifications section is an error. With the impedance set to HI IMP (<5M), the honkiness previously noted seemed much less noticeable and both the EDB-2 and FELiX sounded very similar. However the Grace still had fuller and deeper low extension as described before. As a further experiment, I recorded some pink noise through both units taking care, as much as possible, to make certain that the only difference was the units themselves and matching levels to within 1dB. Both units sounded very similar except for FELiX's deeper low freq. extension. Compared to the source signal, each unit was very close to the original, with only a slightly perceptible fingerprint of coloration noted--so slight as to be practically insignificant as one would never notice when used for the intended purpose.
Both the Grace FELiX and Headway EDB-2 are excellent products that, I believe, achieve the goals of their designers. FELiX is more expensive but justifies its higher price through its additional features, capability, and sheer quality. The EDB-2 is a more compact box that still offers an impressive and useful set of features for its size and price. For a bassist who doesn't really need all that the Grace offers, the EDB-2 is a great alternative. For the bassist who really can benefit from FELiX's extensive and unmatched capabilities, well, it's about damned time. Yeah, I really wish it were cheaper, but you do get what you pay for.
-bob
After a couple of weeks of rehearsals and two live gigs, FELiX has lived up to expectations. It has worked very well with both my Schertler Stat-B and copper Realist, and interfaced flawlessly with modest and intermediate-level house PA systems as well as my AI amps (note that for both gigs I left the rig at home and ran FELiX directly through the PA). For those who mic their bass, sorry but other than the recording exercise described in #26, I did not use a mic and can't comment on blending a mic with a pickup.
There are a few small details that I would change if it were up to me. Below are some suggestions that I forwarded to Grace for their consideration:
1. Footswitches are a little close to the knobs so that clumsy dolts such as me can periodically brush a toe against the Channel 2 controls in the heat of battle.
2. 1 MIX 2 switch LED indicator lights should be moved away from footswitch, perhaps adjacent to the gain control knobs for each channel as they are obscured by one’s shoe when operating the footswitch. In addition, because they are the same color and close together, it is not easy to discern with a quick glance which channel is active. Suggest 1). different color LEDS for each channel, and 2). relocate LEDs to a spot near the large black 1 and 2 channel identification numerals.
3. DIP switches—I find myself turning the 12V DIP switch on and off more frequently than the designer possibly anticipated. Since DIP switches are not normally intended for frequent operation, I wonder whether a more robust switch should be implemented for the 12V circuit.
4. The unit is a little hard to grasp, physically, as there is no handle. When handling FELiX, it is easy to accidentally change a control setting or switch position. The beautiful finish is also a bit slippery and I worry about dropping him. It would be helpful to have some kind of handle or hand-hold.
5. A nice, form-fitted case would be a great option; maybe a well-padded gig bag with shape-conforming foam like a good camera bag.
6. My wishlist includes a second parametric band; or the ability to rout an input signal through both EQ stages in series.
Further comparison of the EDB-2 to (the) FELiX: Their features and functions are too extensive to describe here--interested parties should spend some time reading the manuals to determine which unit better meets their needs. The biggest difference, in my opinion, is the design concept--or maybe the term architecture, so often misused with regard to electronics, is the right word. The EDB-2 is a preamp with two inputs that allow the user to blend two different sources. FELiX is much more like a miniature mixing desk, with two independent and complete channel strips that can be selected 1 or 2 on the fly via footswitch, or mixed 1+2. The EDB-2 is splendidly compact and (relatively) inexpensive, and can operate from battery power or AC adapter; FELiX is considerably larger, nearly three times the price, and requires mains AC (but thankfully no adapter). I think both are fairly priced, all things considered.2. 1 MIX 2 switch LED indicator lights should be moved away from footswitch, perhaps adjacent to the gain control knobs for each channel as they are obscured by one’s shoe when operating the footswitch. In addition, because they are the same color and close together, it is not easy to discern with a quick glance which channel is active. Suggest 1). different color LEDS for each channel, and 2). relocate LEDs to a spot near the large black 1 and 2 channel identification numerals.
3. DIP switches—I find myself turning the 12V DIP switch on and off more frequently than the designer possibly anticipated. Since DIP switches are not normally intended for frequent operation, I wonder whether a more robust switch should be implemented for the 12V circuit.
4. The unit is a little hard to grasp, physically, as there is no handle. When handling FELiX, it is easy to accidentally change a control setting or switch position. The beautiful finish is also a bit slippery and I worry about dropping him. It would be helpful to have some kind of handle or hand-hold.
5. A nice, form-fitted case would be a great option; maybe a well-padded gig bag with shape-conforming foam like a good camera bag.
6. My wishlist includes a second parametric band; or the ability to rout an input signal through both EQ stages in series.
As for the sound, FELiX is as described previously in post #26--neutral, uncolored, effortless. I would like to make a correction to my characterization of the EDB-2 in #26, in which I described a certain honkiness in the midrange. Upon re-reading the EDB-2 manual I discovered a discrepancy in stated input impedance specifications that might explain the perceived coloration. In trying to match both units as closely as possible, I set the FELiX input impedance to 1M and, referring to the EDB manual, selected the Active/Low impedance setting, which the Specifications section listed as 1M. But during a subsequent re-reading of the Features section of the manual I found that paragraph 3.1.3 lists the impedance of the Active/Low setting as "<50k." 50k seems a more reasonable figure for an active source, so I suspect that the 1M spec in the Specifications section is an error. With the impedance set to HI IMP (<5M), the honkiness previously noted seemed much less noticeable and both the EDB-2 and FELiX sounded very similar. However the Grace still had fuller and deeper low extension as described before. As a further experiment, I recorded some pink noise through both units taking care, as much as possible, to make certain that the only difference was the units themselves and matching levels to within 1dB. Both units sounded very similar except for FELiX's deeper low freq. extension. Compared to the source signal, each unit was very close to the original, with only a slightly perceptible fingerprint of coloration noted--so slight as to be practically insignificant as one would never notice when used for the intended purpose.
Both the Grace FELiX and Headway EDB-2 are excellent products that, I believe, achieve the goals of their designers. FELiX is more expensive but justifies its higher price through its additional features, capability, and sheer quality. The EDB-2 is a more compact box that still offers an impressive and useful set of features for its size and price. For a bassist who doesn't really need all that the Grace offers, the EDB-2 is a great alternative. For the bassist who really can benefit from FELiX's extensive and unmatched capabilities, well, it's about damned time. Yeah, I really wish it were cheaper, but you do get what you pay for.
-bob
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This sounds like exactly the preamp I have been looking for. Has anyone used this with a power amp live yet?
Chris, I assume you mean a separate power amp such as a Stewart, QSC, etc. I have not done so. I have used FELiX with my AI Focus, from FELiX's DI output into the AI mic input (the outputs have a line/mic level selector) and from the AMP output to the effects return. FELiX is designed so that it can drive any power amp intended for live sound. I'll give it a shot next time I have an opportunity (probably several weeks from now), or you might query Grace directly.
-bob
- Mar 8, 2011
- 12,232
- 51,187
- Disclosures
- Authorized greenboy designs builder/Owner of BNA Audio
Glad you found the review (such as it is) useful. Funny, the guy who asked for it seems to have lost interest.Thanks for the great review! Suggestion 6 is one I'd love to see as well. Pretty certain I'll be selling some stuff and getting a Felix
I don't think you can go wrong with the FELiX, really. Once you get dialed-in, just plug in and play bass, anywhere, any gear, any situation.
-bob
Yeah great review Bob.
If you mean me having lost interest, I haven't But my main interest was as a blending preamp for the new Remic mic's and the Stat B....After several weeks with the Remic and a bunch of gigs I have gone back in the other direction ....Basically the Remic is an omni and no matter what they say about its feedback rejection, it cannot be used (really either one of them) thru an amp, or near monitor. The feedback has so hurt my ears over the past few weeks (despite the fact that the sound of it is really really good) that I am off of Mic's except (FOH) with a good sound man. SO my interest in a preamp like the Felix diminishes if I am not going to put a mic into it. I have tried to put the speaker up high but it is impractical for most of the gigs I play. So the Felix without a mic in it becomes a thousand dollar doubling of other preamps I already have (like the EDB1 and the Avalon U5 (which I am back using because it is there and sounds great)
I really wish the Remic didn't feed back, it would make me gas for a Felix (I have a DPA 4099 too but my ears are absolutely done with feedback)
would still love to try the Felix but its usefulness (as Bob points out) probably is out weighed by its price and its duplication in other forms.
If you mean me having lost interest, I haven't But my main interest was as a blending preamp for the new Remic mic's and the Stat B....After several weeks with the Remic and a bunch of gigs I have gone back in the other direction ....Basically the Remic is an omni and no matter what they say about its feedback rejection, it cannot be used (really either one of them) thru an amp, or near monitor. The feedback has so hurt my ears over the past few weeks (despite the fact that the sound of it is really really good) that I am off of Mic's except (FOH) with a good sound man. SO my interest in a preamp like the Felix diminishes if I am not going to put a mic into it. I have tried to put the speaker up high but it is impractical for most of the gigs I play. So the Felix without a mic in it becomes a thousand dollar doubling of other preamps I already have (like the EDB1 and the Avalon U5 (which I am back using because it is there and sounds great)
I really wish the Remic didn't feed back, it would make me gas for a Felix (I have a DPA 4099 too but my ears are absolutely done with feedback)
would still love to try the Felix but its usefulness (as Bob points out) probably is out weighed by its price and its duplication in other forms.
No, not you. Another post had asked for a comparison with the EDB-2.
Your experience with mics is a lot like mine. I've haven't been able to get a mic to work consistently at moderate or louder volume levels. Even if its our lucky night, putting a mic close enough to the instrument to avoid feedback and bleed from other sound sources means that the mic is only capturing the sound from a relatively small area of the bass instead of the entire instrument. Which, of course, is one of the drawbacks of using a pickup. I'm not saying it cannot and has not been done successfully, but it seems impossible to make a mic work reliably from one gig to the next, one stage to the next, and so on. So when we talk about preamps, the elephant in the room is always the source, and if the source is a pickup--any pickup--or a hypercardioid mic rigged close (within a foot) to the bass, it seems probable that we're not going to get a realistic, your-bass-only-louder sound no matter what we're plugged into. Until someone comes up with a mic or pickup system that really does solve the issue, I think the best we can do is find a pickup and/or mic that works for our bass, our playing style, and the kinds of gigs we play, and learn to get the best sound that can be had with that system from our fingers first and then the knobs, using the least amount of electronics possible.
-bob
Interesting unit (the Felix), and interesting observations, but I do not entirely agree. I use a Schoeps MK41 hypercard mic in the same way that Larry Grenadier uses his (with an H-clamp close to the top, into a mic preamp and a powered monitor) and it does sound like my bass, only louder. I also record with this mic in the same position (which is definitely closer than 30 cms) and the recording really sounds like my bass does acoustically. Of course, it is a very expensive mic, but that much more expensive than the Remic...
Cheers,
Vincent
Cheers,
Vincent
That's certainly been the case with me. Fortunately the Ehrlund EAP is very compatible with my instrument. I can definitaly get a more refined sound with a DPA 4099B, especially FOH but send it back through an amplifier isn't always ideal. I was just at the ISB convenvention though, and on the main stage concerts the DPA 4099 sounded better than any of the instruments where they ran a line from the pickup. The AMT just didn't even come close. I think the EDB-2 is a fine unit at it's price, but today as I head out for a concert I'm changing out the batteries, just as a precaution, to make sure that it can go the distance
Ric
Bob,
What a great review, When I first purchased my EDB-2 I found that same discrepancy in the manual, and sent a query to John Littler at Headway. He returned my email, stating that there was a error in the manual, and the
Active/Low setting was 1 meg ohm. I agree that with my bass and the Ehrlund EAP the Hi setting (5 Megohm setting) sounds noticeably better, expecially with a Realist. So there you have it.
Ric
Yeah, the Grace won't do much to solve your feedback issues. It has a very effective notch filter, which is spec'd at -35dB(!) (vs. -12 for the Headway). -35 is the deepest notch that I've ever encountered and while I wonder if the spec might be a misprint, it does seem to be rather dramatic in use. But my experience with mics is that when playing loudly enough to encounter the feedback threshold, the system tends to feedback at multiple frequencies thus the notch filter is of limited benefit.
-bob
Oh man...the topic of mics and mic techniques is a crazy can of worms. Schoeps makes great microphones and if your setup is giving you what you want, then 1). money well-spent; and 2). you are one lucky dude.
-bob
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I was there also and heard a couple of recitals using the 4099 and thought the setup sounded good on both. Meanwhile, it seems that very few bassists have figured out how to get a truly natural and realistic sound with a pickup, and I certainly haven't heard any recently that could compare with a mic'd bass. But I guess that's why we're all here, considering paying a grand for a friggin' preamp.
I'm glad that my clumsy and amateur observations are useful. Pickups, mics, preamps, amps, speakers... it's really frustrating that we can't try them on like shirts and just buy the one that fits best--in fact, we usually can't try them on at all but instead we have to buy the whole rack, one at a time, and hope that we come across THE one that fits and matches the jacket and tie. Lot's of people have a drawer full of pickups and mics and preamps and sometimes several amps and speaker cabinets that they've been through over the years in a long futile search to find the sound of their bass. Taken together, that's a lot of investment only to come up short of the goal. TB is a good place to learn from the experience of others, and y'all have helped me keep that drawer (relatively) empty, saving me quite a bit of $ over the past several years.
As for the EDB-2, thank you for the correct Active/Low impedence. That being the case, with both the FELiX and the EDB-2 set to an input impedence of 1M, the sound using the Realist is as reported in #26. I agree that the Realist sounds better with the EDB-2 set to HI.
Thanks for your replies.
-bob
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