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Graphic EQ and white noise

J

JimKata

Dec 26, 2009
46
0
Ithaca, NY
www.jimkata.com
#1
Recently purchased a DOD R-431 graphic eq - DOD R-431, Graphic Equalizer Rack | eBay

I'm using it in my bass rack with an Avalon DI. I noticed that when I engage the equalization section there is noticeable white noise. I am certain it is not a grounding issue because when I run my bass without the eq engaged it is still passing through the DOD and the signal is clear as day. Also, when boosting higher frequencies (4K and up) the noise increases dramatically. I'm imagining this is because my bass is an unbalanced signal.

Do you guys have any suggestions on how to remove this noise? I believe Boss makes some sort of frequency canceler but I would like to keep cutting frequencies to a minimum. Any suggestions are appreciated, thanks guys!!
 
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#2
JimKata said:
Recently purchased a DOD R-431 graphic eq - DOD R-431, Graphic Equalizer Rack | eBay

I'm using it in my bass rack with an Avalon DI. I noticed that when I engage the equalization section there is noticeable white noise. I am certain it is not a grounding issue because when I run my bass without the eq engaged it is still passing through the DOD and the signal is clear as day. Also, when boosting higher frequencies (4K and up) the noise increases dramatically. I'm imagining this is because my bass is an unbalanced signal.

Do you guys have any suggestions on how to remove this noise? I believe Boss makes some sort of frequency canceler but I would like to keep cutting frequencies to a minimum. Any suggestions are appreciated, thanks guys!!
Click to expand...

Post a photo of yours, the way you normally have it set. If your sliders are above the middle detent, you'll hear hiss, especially in the high frequencies.
 
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#6
JimKata said:
Also, when boosting higher frequencies (4K and up) the noise increases dramatically. I'm imagining this is because my bass is an unbalanced signal.
Click to expand...

Put simply, you are getting noise because you are boosting the noise. You will get this extraneous noise whether or not your signal is balanced. It may be louder, yes, but if you want to really make things sounds better, I would advise ditching the 31-band and getting a PEQ.
A PEQ will generally give you less noise, and is much easier to adjust.
 
#7
Interesting ideas guys. But the answer Is that you have a gain stage issue. The DOD EQ is actually not a real clean device. It must be inserted into your signal path post Preamp. I would imagine your bass amp has an Effects loop in and out? This is where your EQ goes. Not at the front of the signal path. It is correct to say that you don't get that much level heading out of the DI going into the EQ, because there isn't much level. It's not the DI's fault, it's just that an EQ, in particular a cheap DOD, is going to be a noisier device. I would stay away from a parametric EQ until you start to grasp a better understanding of signal flow. If you didn't understand why you were having this problem, you may not grasp the idea of what to do with a full on parametric EQ.
 
#8
As Steve tried to point out earlier, the DI is an Avalon, and the Avalon DI is in fact a high-voltage class-A preamp with a huge amount of very clean gain available. Easily able to drive any +4 dBu device with no appreciable noise penalty.

Now, what we don't know yet is whether the OP has his Avalon's output level set high or low. If it's set low, then all the posts about gain staging make sense.

The OP also clearly specified that there is no noise when the EQ is disengaged. If it was a gain staging issue, the EQ would have been being used to boost the gain "more than a little", so he would have said that the volume drops very low when the EQ is disenaged--rather than what he did say: that the signal is "clear as day".

I've owned the DOD EQ, and it is just noisy. Not so noisy that it should be burned or anything, but definitely noticeable hiss when you are dealing with a high-fidelity signal path and listening system. The fault is the gain stages, which are cheaply-designed. You could run a perfectly noiseless signal into them, and get noise out.

Yes, the best way to hear that hiss is to turn up any of the treble sliders.

Now, depending on what else the OP is doing, anything that may have been left out, or anything about his gain settings, there could certainly still be problems with user error, or with the specific gear/hookup, that may also introduce or amplify noise.

OP? More info please, about your specific setup.
 
#10
Hey guys thanks for the quick responses. On tour so internet access is sparse. So to give you some more insight into my set-up: for the past couple years I had been using a Shuttle 6.0 until we were in Utah a month ago and that got stolen along wih some other gear (long story but obviously a ****** situation). I used that as an opportunity to build my own bass rig. So I'm now running my bass thought effects board > diamond bcp1 > dod graphic EQ > Avalon di > power amp. I only acquired the dod last week and have just begun using it. It sounds as is this is a gain stage issue since I'm using It before my avalon. So my question becomes whether or not there is a way to insert the EQ into my signal path before the di since that's what I want to send to the board (not a huge fan of the avalons tone presets and I don't like eq'ing on board my bass). What are my options for getting the EQ in before my di? Should I use another preamp before the dod? Turn up my volume? I've notice that as I turn up the output of the dod the white noise stays at the same level. If I turn up my input signal, and turn up the dod's output, theoretically the static will remain at its current level while tremendously increasing my instruments signal and increasing the signal to noise ratio. Also I'm not boosting the dod to boost my signal. For those familiar there is a EQ on and off button and when engaged the noise begins. When running everything completely flat and turning on the EQ the noise begins but I'm not altering the EQ or level of my signal, just sending my bass through the EQ section instead of bypassing it (I think ... )

Keithwah I would actually love a parametric EQ but A friend was practically giving away the dod with a deal too good to pass up.

You guys really are the best and I appreciate your continued guidance. Thanks.
 
#11
If you want the exact same EQ to go to both your onstage amp and the PA, then you are hosed. But most of the time, that would be a bad approach anyway, because the onstage sound usually needs different EQ than the rest of the room, and the soundman has all the EQ he needs for the room already in his rig. So your problem is solved! Just go from the Avalon (at line level) out to the EQ, and from the EQ out to your amp.
 
#13
JimKata said:
OH NO say it ain't so. Was dreading that would be the answer but I guess that's what I'll do for the time being. Not a huge fan of sending the sound guy my eq flat as I'm pretty particular about how my bass sounds but live sound is all about tradeoffs.
Click to expand...

Trouble is, what you sound like out front isn't completely your responsibility. I can't tell you how many shows I've seen where one member of the band took it upon themselves to do the sound guy's job, and ended up wrecking the FOH mix. I've even mixed shows like that, and let me tell you, there's no better way to ruin someone's day.
So, don't worry what you sound like out front. Just give the sound guy a good signal and trust that s/he is doing his/her best to make you sound good. For the sake of your sound guy and your audience.
Not to mention, any EQ you perform, he can undo. But that adds noise, which means you will end up sounding like what he wants you to anyway, plus a bunch of noise. So really, you may as well save him the trouble and send a flat signal.
 

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