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Graphic EQ tone suck issue

kringle77

kringle77

Supporting Member
Jul 30, 2004
8,880
4,291
49
Massena NY
#1
Did any of you ever notice that no matter how high quality a graphic eq or parametric is, it makes your amp or preamp feel differently or sucks some of the snappiness out of your tone? I consider myself very good with gear but this issue has ripped me for years. How great would it be to have a really good preamp and just run a graphic after it for live use. Simple, easy to use live. Anyone have thoughts?:confused:
 
#6
I would like to go on record here and state unequivocally that I would rather be slapped about the face and head repeatedly with a dead rabbit than have a graphic EQ on my bass head or preamp (or home stereo). :eek:;)

M. M.
 
#7
kringle77 said:
Did any of you ever notice that no matter how high quality a graphic eq or parametric is, it makes your amp or preamp feel differently or sucks some of the snappiness out of your tone? I consider myself very good with gear but this issue has ripped me for years. How great would it be to have a really good preamp and just run a graphic after it for live use. Simple, easy to use live. Anyone have thoughts?:confused:
Click to expand...
Eq can be the cause of phase distortion, many passive eq types are
less powerful but much more phase coherent.:hyper:
 
#9
blowinblue said:
I would like to go on record here and state unequivocally that I would rather be slapped about the face and head repeatedly with a dead rabbit than have a graphic EQ on my bass head or preamp (or home stereo). :eek:;)

M. M.
Click to expand...

Ditto. I like the ole 3 knob job, with a mid freq selector if need be, but nothing more. IMO, graphic EQs just screw everything up. I've never found one that gave a better sound than just using the tone controls on the amp.
 
#12
I had that experience with Demeter. That thing just lot the sparkle when run through an external - and these were reasonably good EQ's Rane & a higher end DBx. My F2B didn't seem to degrade nearly as much. Maybe some impedance matching at play there ?

Eden is interesting. I've spent quality studio time with a Navigtor and it's best settings were with EVERYTHING but the gain off...EQ out, not compression, no boost, no enhance ... but then it sounded really darned good. Slightly noisier than a Great River but not far off - for a performance oriented bass preamp that's heady company...

like most of you guys I'm not really in favor of a graphic in my bass rig. A couple of parametric bands I'm down with if they are quality bands as it were... Personally you can have as much Baxandall as you want. I'll take Leo's old brain dead RCA interactive thing anyday... yes - it's goofy but in a wonderfully musical way. This is of course why I dug the F2B ...
 
#14
You guys aren't getting it. It's not how they shape the tone. I have no issues with that. I was to take any preamp that I own and run the output into an eq (any type) I have always found that I have to add alittle bit of top end back in because some clarity seems to be lossed adding the eq. Even then, the overall feels seems to change from just the preamp alone.
 
#16
In my opinion, EQ's should not be used for "tone" shaping. That's what your bass and your preamp is for.

EQ's are meant to control frequencies. Of course in controlling those frequencies your tone gets altered, but tone control is not an EQ's purpose.

You should dial in the tone you want via string choice, the bass you play, and the preamp (or the preamp within the amphead) of your choosing and the cab(s) you play through.

Then with whatever environment you are playing in, adjust your EQ to get those bass frequencies under control. Graphic EQ's, when used judiciously, will take care of room deficiencies by enhancing frequencies that seem weak and curbing those that are too strong for that room. Parametric EQ's are great for the mids by controlling only those problematic mid frequencies without sucking all the mids out of your bass.

kringle77 said:
How great would it be to have a really good preamp and just run a graphic after it for live use. Simple, easy to use live. Anyone have thoughts?:confused:
Click to expand...

You just said what the purpose of the EQ is for. My bass sounds great direct, or through my Zoom B2 pedal. I put that into my Superfly head which has fantastic Graphic and Parametric EQ's and that is all I use the EQ section for...controlling frequencies for a given environment as the tone I already have is great.

When set flat, a Graphic EQ will leave your bass sounding just the way it is (as if you weren't going through an EQ at all). So if you are having problems with an EQ it is either how you use it, or you need to look into getting a different bass or preamp/amphead/cab.
 
#17
Maybe I'm just feeling cranky this morning but, never mind. You guys aren't getting it. I know the variables of gear, strings, hand placement, what gear does. I think that I must be hearing an impedance miss match or something else.
 
#19
I often use an Ashly MQX1310 graphic EQ or PQX571 parametric EQ, and have not had any tone suck issues.

I use an EBS Classic preamp, but I don't use the preamp effects loop. I send a balanced signal from the preamp XLR out to the EQ in, at +4 level. The EQ out to power amp in is also balanced. Of course this ties up the preamp's XLR out, but I usually play without PA reinforcement anyway.

My experience has been that running the preamp as hot as it will go and attenuating the level at the EQ stage improves sound quality. I suspect I'm hearing an improvement in dynamic range. Whatever, I like it!
 
#20
kringle77 said:
You guys aren't getting it.
Click to expand...

Wrong, actually. The majority of us have said we had problems with graphic EQ specifically and not other kinds of EQ, meaning the problem you're experiencing with "all" EQ's is specific to you. It's also been explained why a graphic EQ can often suck tone, regardless of settings: multiple bands of phase interference. I doubt there would be an impedance mismatch between a normal rack preamp and a normal rack EQ; that would be very unlikely. What might easily be a problem is if you're sending an unbalanced preamp out into a balanced-only EQ input. Also if the signal you're sending into the EQ is not a normal rack pre, but instead straight from the bass, or from a typical pedal, or from a headphone output on an amp, or some other not-by-the-book connection, that could cause problems. And of course if the EQ is of poor quality then you'll hear tone issues. So really- many of us do "get it", you're just not listening; and the problem is really you in your specific connections and gear.
 

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