Double Bass Great comping

[Treyzer]

When you are soloing, what is the relationship that you expect as a bass soloist from the comper? Can you describe how you interact with the comper? What do you want from them, as a player? I'd like to hear lots of different perspectives as I doubt if it's the same for everyone.

Wow great question Huy,

+1000 to what Paul stated;

I like players who listen real hard, are conversational, can suggest alternate harmonic ideas that can push you farther in the direction that you're going and of course have a strong sense of time so they don't have to play downbeats to mark where they think we are in the tune. Drives me crazy when whoever is comping rushes and/or dictates through increased volume or basic chord choices where they think my solo is going!

 

[Don Higdon]

In jazz, IMO, there is a big verbal diference between the words comping and accompanying. Usually, IME, when we talk about "comping" we're talking about how the pianist plays behind the soloist in a group of jazz instrumentalists on a medium or up tempo.
OTOH, when we say "accompanist" we're speaking in terms of how he plays behind a singer on a more "feature" kind of experience.

Precisely, and this thread is about comping.

 

[Paul Warburton]

OK.
That means I can talk some more about awful stuff piano players do behind solos. Oh, goody.
How about the ones that play counter right hand lines and arpeggiated dazzlement behind the solos.

EDIT: OR, when the horns set up a Basie ending and he don't know enough to play..... blink..blink...blink way up high.

 

[Treyzer]

OK.
That means I can talk some more about awful stuff piano players do behind solos. Oh, goody.
How about the ones that play counter right hand lines and arpeggiated dazzlement behind the solos.

EDIT: OR, when the horns set up a Basie ending and he don't know enough to play..... blink..blink...blink way up high.

I wanna hear more!

 

[Monte]

OK.

EDIT: OR, when the horns set up a Basie ending and he don't know enough to play..... blink..blink...blink way up high.

HAHAHAHAH.....even better when the culprit is the hot new kid in the unversity jazz band, thinks that jazz began with Mehldau, and when you call them out on it they don't have the balls to admit they never LEARNED the Basie ending and claim that they avoid playing it because it isn't original enough.

 

[Jazzdogg]

Here's a link to an article about Mike Wofford that appeared in the local newspaper a few days ago:

Invalid Link Removed

 

[ChuckCorbis]

I would add that although he is guitarist, Jim Hall's comping in pianoless settings has to be the Holy Grail for the guitar. Nobody comes close. He is by himself in that department. I have a record, "Easy Living" of Jim Hall with Paul Desmond, Percy Heath, and Connie Kay that is just pure beauty. Jim's comping, voicing and almost psychic abilities are remarkable.

 

[Huy Nguyen]

Yeah that root on the bottom comping drives me nuts. Or when drummer or comper doesn't listen to the solo. When I'm soloing, I typically try to leave them space because I want them to fill it. I'm staring at them and they're not even paying attention. Maybe I should shout at them them to fill it. Or when the comping is all over the place and you end up having to play more chord/tones and roots just to make sure the form is outlined properly so he doesn't get lost?

 

[Marcus Johnson]

I would add that although he is guitarist, Jim Hall's comping in pianoless settings has to be the Holy Grail for the guitar. Nobody comes close. He is by himself in that department. I have a record, "Easy Living" of Jim Hall with Paul Desmond, Percy Heath, and Connie Kay that is just pure beauty. Jim's comping, voicing and almost psychic abilities are remarkable.

Well said, 100% correct. He is the greatest guitarist on the planet.

 

[Paul Warburton]

'Sirree.
Like I said in my earlier post here, he's my favorite living musician. Also, like a few other players on other instruments he's ceased to be a "guitarist". He is a Voice, a power, something intangible and almost mysterious.
Then you talk to him and it's the salt of the earth. I love that.
Long live Jim. He's about eighty now and if you check Ed's current youtube clips he is as fabulous as ever.
Horace's battle with alzheimer's makes Jim being still active bitter-sweet to me. I could never repay the beauty he's brought to my life.

EDIT: Another Red Mitchell discovery and huge supporter throughout the years, BTW. Another "Voice".

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Yeah that root on the bottom comping drives me nuts. Or when drummer or comper doesn't listen to the solo. When I'm soloing, I typically try to leave them space because I want them to fill it. I'm staring at them and they're not even paying attention. Maybe I should shout at them them to fill it. Or when the comping is all over the place and you end up having to play more chord/tones and roots just to make sure the form is outlined properly so he doesn't get lost?

I actually like the tasteful use of roots on the bottom when I go up into the upper register. One of the tough things about soloing as a bassist is that we don't have the same harmonic foundation as everybody else. For this reason, it's harder for us to make the extensions sound as strong at times. Agreed on Bill, Wynton, and Jim as great compers. I also like Randy Porter's comping a lot - he really listens and adds something to the conversation! Andy LaVerne is also fun to play with for this reason.

 

[Altitude]

Chick Corea throws more ideas comping than most people do soloing.

+1. I was going to mention Chick at the risk of sounding young, but I do like his comping ideas much.

when we talk about "comping" we're talking about how the pianist plays behind the soloist in a group of jazz instrumentalists on a medium or up tempo.

...or behind himself in his own solo, which is where it really blows my mind. I have enough trouble maintaining interesting ideas for the solo itself, without worrying about my left hand too!

When I'm soloing, I typically try to leave them space because I want them to fill it. I'm staring at them and they're not even paying attention. Maybe I should shout at them them to fill it. Or when the comping is all over the place and you end up having to play more chord/tones and roots just to make sure the form is outlined properly so he doesn't get lost?

+1! Seems like most guys I play with either take the bass solos off and go talk to the girl in the front row, or else the comping they do is so out there that nobody has any chance of following the form, whether in front of the stage or on it...

 

[Marc Piane]

"For some reason, when it's time for a bass solo, the drummer--with whom you may have just set up some incredible grooves--suddenly starts to play clickety-click on the closed hi-hat. Meanwhile, the pianist either stops playing, or he's reached the conclusion that he mustn't clutter up the lower register for you, so he plays some trebly clink-clinks. Clickety-click, clink-clink--who the heck can play a solo on top of that?"

-Niels-Henning Ørsted Pedersen, in an interview by Mikael Jansson, Bass Player Magazine, May 1996

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

"For some reason, when it's time for a bass solo, the drummer--with whom you may have just set up some incredible grooves--suddenly starts to play clickety-click on the closed hi-hat. Meanwhile, the pianist either stops playing, or he's reached the conclusion that he mustn't clutter up the lower register for you, so he plays some trebly clink-clinks. Clickety-click, clink-clink--who the heck can play a solo on top of that?"

-Niels-Henning Ørsted Pedersen, in an interview by Mikael Jansson, Bass Player Magazine, May 1996

Very nice. Deserves to be quoted for emphasis. I've never known what to call those trebly clink-clinks before, but I've always hated them. I want the comping to get up under me for support. I want it to make my space sound better than silence, and if they do, there's a great chance for some real music to occur.

 

[Treyzer]

Thanks Swami for that NHOP quote.

As bassists, our main job is to support others, supply grooves, listen to the soloists and provide what they are looking for. Some guys like to take it out and have you go out too, some guys like to have you stay at home, some like harmonic & melodic invention, some don't. The variations are endless and it's our job, (while grooving, running the changes and creating lines on the spot), to try and figure out what the soloist is looking for. Those bassists that become adept at these skills typically get called a lot!

So, the more I think about it, good comping behind a bass solo primarily has to do with good solid and sometimes hopefully inspired musicianship. So many things can work if done musically and so many things can become a train wreck if done poorly. I think it comes down to ears, feel, communication, sensitivity and of course musicianship.

 

[Don Higdon]

(1)Yeah that root on the bottom comping drives me nuts.... (2)Or when the comping is all over the place and you end up having to play more chord/tones and roots just to make sure the form is outlined properly

(1)Mose Allison did that alot with Al Cohn and Zoot Sims and it swung very hard. Before that, Mose was doing the same thing with Stan Getz, not a good guy to pi$$ off. I saw both these groups in person.
(2)Doesn't this fly in the face of (1)?
I loved early Mose; when he went to a trio format, he morphed into a style that I don't find swinging.

 

[Paul Warburton]

I don't mind the tonic in the chord, I just don't like it on the bottom anymore. That's our job as bassists. I think it's redundant. I spend time not even playing the tonic in some of my lines.....but only on specific musical occasions and certainly not in a supportive role with horns and a singer.

 

[ChuckCorbis]

Gil Evan's sometimes voiced the tonic on the bottom with more than one bass clef instrument{bass trombone, tuba, bari sax, bass clarinet} while one of 2 basses walked{double bass, electric bass} and another played figures. And, for punctuation at the end of sections on piano as well--the roots on the bottom, especially on turn-arounds. Some Basie arrangements have the bari doing this while the saxes are "comping" the changes behind soloists. I say comping because that's what it sounds like. At first to me on paper it didn't make sense and looked cluttered and seemed like alot of close traffic down there but when you here it done tastefully-it does swing. The problem starts when some ignoramus on guitar or piano starts gratuitously playing the roots in cheesy nonsensical ways because he doesn't know any better.

 

[Mark Carlsen]

Getting back to the original post..... A few local hero's ... The late great Dave McKenna was in a league by himself. In any situation this man stood alone as a musician's musician.
Another cat although he may be thought of as more an accompanist is Mike Renzi. He is one of the most creative musicians I have ever met. He really listens and takes comping very seriously.
And a lesser known cat but still world class is Paul Schmeling who was the chair for the piano department at Berklee. Just a killin' player and one of the best compers you will ever hear. All of these gentlemen would make you happy to share the stage with.

 

[Paul Warburton]

+1 on Dave. Played some things with him. So did Dono?