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Great DI for Live FOH When Using Vintage DI-Less Amp?

derekeugene

derekeugene

Jul 11, 2008
578
684
Kansas City
#1
Did a quick search and didn't see anything, hoping someone may have some advice or experience they can share.

I've been using an Ampeg V4 forever, but have always gotten the 'sigh-and-eye-roll' from soundguys when they see that it doesn't have a line out. Then, out comes the Behringer/Livewire/Radial DI. Those DIs are fine, but I worry about how its mixed w/ the mic'd cab and how it responds to effects.

Is there a consensus or anything DI-wise you've tried to get a great sound either before the amp or between the amp and speaker?
 
#2
For between the amp and speaker my go to was always a countryman type 85. It's a very clean active DI, so it's just the sound of the amp.

If you want some speaker emulation there are other options, but I have been using a two notes captor X at home with headphones a lot, and it will serve as a pass through (non-attenuated) DI. In pass through mode the captor X works like the countryman, it's a very high impedance load and the amp really only "sees" the speaker load of the cab so you could use it with a 4 ohm cab (verified this with two notes directly when I bought mine). This would allow you to send a speaker simulated signal from the amp to FOH. Cheaper option is still the countryman or similar (neve rndi, some radial boxes, etc).
 
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#3
coreyfyfe said:
For between the amp and speaker my go to was always a countryman type 85. It's a very clean active DI, so it's just the sound of the amp.

If you want some speaker emulation there are other options, but I have been using a two notes captor X at home with headphones a lot, and it will serve as a pass through (non-attenuated) DI. In pass through mode the captor X works like the countryman, it's a very high impedance load and the amp really only "sees" the speaker load of the cab so you could use it with a 4 ohm cab (verified this with two notes directly when I bought mine). This would allow you to send a speaker simulated signal from the amp to FOH. Cheaper option is still the countryman or similar (neve rndi, some radial boxes, etc).
Click to expand...

A pass through (non-attenuated) DI with IR abilities between the amp and cab sounds pretty much perfect. I'll do some looking around at those. Thanks!
 
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#6
derekeugene said:
I've been using an Ampeg V4 forever, but have always gotten the 'sigh-and-eye-roll' from soundguys when they see that it doesn't have a line out.
Click to expand...
I have always send speaker level DI signal to FOH with my SVT amplifier.
I'd hate it to do it differently, I insist on "total" SVT sound in the main mix FOH, and I don't care about 'sigh-and-eye-roll' of other folks.
 
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#7
Not trying to be a critic, but if you're relying on the FOH to support the bulk of your sound, why bring the vintage V4 in the 1st place? Why not just get a smaller amp w a nice DI and call it a day. There are crap ton of class d options that can cop a tube tone which are small, light, reliable, loud, and have excellent di options. I mean, I get it. We all need/want our sound. But if your sound isn't even being reproduced from the FOH sound guy, then I'd seriously be reconsidering why I'm bringing a heavy vintage amp to a gig.
 
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#9
derekeugene said:
Did a quick search and didn't see anything, hoping someone may have some advice or experience they can share.

I've been using an Ampeg V4 forever, but have always gotten the 'sigh-and-eye-roll' from soundguys when they see that it doesn't have a line out. Then, out comes the Behringer/Livewire/Radial DI. Those DIs are fine, but I worry about how its mixed w/ the mic'd cab and how it responds to effects.

Is there a consensus or anything DI-wise you've tried to get a great sound either before the amp or between the amp and speaker?
Click to expand...
Two notes torpedo. Thing's great.

20220323_195011.jpg


That's the box on the top left of my head.

It's a load box. You run your speaker out into it, and you can use your tube amp without a speaker attached. 100w max. It has an XLR out with selectable cab sims (or none), a volume knob for the DI, a line out, an attenuated speaker output (so you can run high amp settings, and get low volume), and a through speaker out (that runs full amp settings with no attenuation.

Thing's dope. Comes in 3 load choices. 4ohm, 8ohm, and 16ohm. Good for guitar or bass.

It's a passive load box. No power necessary to serve that purpose. But, the DI is active. It runs on 9v, 18v, or phantom power through the xlr.
 
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#10
JeezyMcNuggles said:
Two notes torpedo. Thing's great.


It's a load box. You run your speaker out into it, and you can use your tube amp without a speaker attached. 100w max. It has an XLR out with selectable cab sims (or none), a volume knob for the DI, a line out, an attenuated speaker output (so you can run high amp settings, and get low volume), and a through speaker out (that runs full amp settings with no attenuation.

Thing's dope. Comes in 3 load choices. 4ohm, 8ohm, and 16ohm. Good for guitar or bass.

It's a passive load box. No power necessary to serve that purpose. But, the DI is active. It runs on 9v, 18v, or phantom power through the xlr.
Click to expand...


This here- especially if I'm Ampeg v4 and it's the sound I want.

Guitarist I play with has one and it is amazing.
 
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#12
coreyfyfe said:
For between the amp and speaker my go to was always a countryman type 85. It's a very clean active DI, so it's just the sound of the amp.

If you want some speaker emulation there are other options, but I have been using a two notes captor X at home with headphones a lot, and it will serve as a pass through (non-attenuated) DI. In pass through mode the captor X works like the countryman, it's a very high impedance load and the amp really only "sees" the speaker load of the cab so you could use it with a 4 ohm cab (verified this with two notes directly when I bought mine). This would allow you to send a speaker simulated signal from the amp to FOH. Cheaper option is still the countryman or similar (neve rndi, some radial boxes, etc).
Click to expand...

The Cab M can do what OP wants for half the price of the Captor X, since he doesn't asks for playing without a Cab or to attenuate the cab.

But he might prefer to get the Captor X anyway to practice or record at home with Head only, or to play on the cab with attenuated power amp.

I have a Captor X to play my guitar tube amp with headphones at home and record.
I use the Cab M for my bass along a traditional bass preamp, when I don't use to the built in preamp.

Captor X advantage is that is stereo, this is great for playing with headphones,wwhile the Cab M is mono.
But there is no aux on the captor so you need a mixer if you want to use a backtrack.

What is a pity also is that there is no preamp and power amp simulation in the Captor X.
It's only made to take a poweramp level, but Cab M can take bass, preamp and poweramp, and has the preamp and poweramp simulation.

Some of their representative told me they were planning something soon, so maybe you could hold things of a bit.
 
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#14
g4string said:
Not trying to be a critic, but if you're relying on the FOH to support the bulk of your sound, why bring the vintage V4 in the 1st place? Why not just get a smaller amp w a nice DI and call it a day. There are crap ton of class d options that can cop a tube tone which are small, light, reliable, loud, and have excellent di options. I mean, I get it. We all need/want our sound. But if your sound isn't even being reproduced from the FOH sound guy, then I'd seriously be reconsidering why I'm bringing a heavy vintage amp to a gig.
Click to expand...

Maybe one of the tiny Ampeg tube amps?
 
#17
I guess the engineers in my part of the world must think differently as they rarely want to use a direct out from an amp. I totally agree with them. Using an external DI is a failsafe in case the amp breaks down. If your effects don't sound right with an external DI they probably won't sound right with the direct out from an amp either. Using an external DI is perfectly acceptable and any engineer that can't handle it without rolling his eyes can't possibly be a professional engineer IMO.

Using an external DI is also more flexible as you can choose to run the DI clean and send your effects to the amp. This will of course depend on what kind of tone you want in the PA.

As for Ampegs I've never liked the tone I get from their direct outs so no DI on the V4 wouldn't bother me at all. I much prefer the tone I get from a good external DI box, preferrably combined with a mic'ed cab. For live gigs I usually just use whatever the venue provides, typically BSS or Countryman. Both are great. Sometimes I bring a Radial but I never bother with fancy tube DIs on stage. I save those for the studio.

But Behringer? I've never met a professional engineer who would touch a Behringer DI and neither would I.

My recommendations would be Radial JDI for active basses and Radial J48 for passive basses. Great sound, very rugged, doesn't take up much space and not too expensive. But there are lots of great sounding DIs and some of them are cheaper than Radial. I wouldn't go Behringer-cheap though.
 
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#19
Palmer 01
Daisy chain plugged into the cabinet (which means speaker level DI plugged in "parallel mode" to the cabinet).

Great sound cause it sends a slightly saturated/compressed SVT (tube) sound FOH

edit:
and I have to tell, even sound guys are pretty much happy with the sound they get FOH from the SVT amplifier.
 
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