slowburnaz
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Greatest Progressive Album ever
- Thread starter tangentmusic
- Start date
I forgot about this one and although it is not my favorite Queensryche album it is one of the few concept albums post-70's that actually works. DT's Scenes from a Memory would be the other.
COS is a bold choice. I like it because it's so freakin' weird and evokes a very stark bizarre setting on the two epic tracks. I wouldn't put it in the greatest prog album category but it has a special place in my heart for sure.
Convergent evolution. I'll have to remember that. Don't know what it means, but it sounds great.
Well, I guess this thread started with a genre, and has inevitably come to a discussion of what is in and what is out of that genre. Prog, fusion, jazz, whatever. I have to say that nothing that Sun Ra did looks like prog to me, despite his Saturnian origins. His music is firmly based in the blues, as is most jazz including free modal jazz. This includes the modal Miles, and even Bitches' Brew just doesn't strike me as fusion, despite the electric instruments, much less Filles, Silent Way, or even the Water Babies selections from the same sessions (which I much prefer to In a Silent Way). I understand the thought that the jazz musicians such as Miles, and the aforementioned Gary Burton, were reaching in the direction of pop/rock off and on, but in my mind this did not reach something that could be called "fusion" until Tony Williams Lifetime or subsequent McLaughlin, Larry Coryell, Chick Corea and Wayne Shorter electric projects. A good case might even be made that Zappa (who was fusing Varese and surf) and the Mothers started the whole thing, but not a mention of him yet, that I have seen.
I certainly have a horrible time thinking about Mahavishnu Orchestra as prog in any way, but it's not for me to say, I guess.
By the way, if Pawn Hearts gets no votes other than mine, I guess I'll have to second Close to the Edge. Third place goes to Passion Play, which I liked more than Brick, though I'm clearly habitually in the minority.
Right. None of the fusion stuff to me sounds like prog at all either...but where there are similarities are how (like prog rock) fusion has a very exploratory nature...all the same things I liked about prog rock were basically also found in fusion, even up to the use of sci-fi/fantasy themes in the song titles.
What I think is that a lot of the early prog rock was influenced by fusion in some way. It was English rocker's version of it. Or, when I say "convergent evolution" that's basically two things ending up the being similar without actually being related..like how some animals end up looking similar despite being totally different species....
Honestly, I think prog and fusion have more in common then prog and some of the indie/college rock or jam band stuff some other have posted here (some of that was quite good, actually)
Subtle observation...
I think that prog rock is more of an expression of a symphonic sort. It is more about the ensemble and the composition and the overall effect. Fusion, which has its roots in jazz, and whose musicians come from that tradition, is more about the individual musician, improvisatory skills, open communication and group interactivity on stage. I think in terms of sheer virtuosity, the jazz/fusion guys reign, but the the prog genre is more successful in terms of a musical unit presenting something compositionally cohesive.
Of course I am generalizing, and instancces abound that unmark my assertion, but again just generalizing.
Just a curious interesting question...is Bela Fleck and the Flecktones fusion???
I think that prog rock is more of an expression of a symphonic sort. It is more about the ensemble and the composition and the overall effect. Fusion, which has its roots in jazz, and whose musicians come from that tradition, is more about the individual musician, improvisatory skills, open communication and group interactivity on stage. I think in terms of sheer virtuosity, the jazz/fusion guys reign, but the the prog genre is more successful in terms of a musical unit presenting something compositionally cohesive.
Of course I am generalizing, and instancces abound that unmark my assertion, but again just generalizing.
Just a curious interesting question...is Bela Fleck and the Flecktones fusion???
Interesting discussion and I agree. Vocals also have something to do with it, I think.
In a recent Greg Lake interview in Bass Player, he made an interesting point (maybe obvious to many, but I never really thought about it that way). He said that at the beginning of ELP, he wanted to go the other direction from the Yardbirds, Stones, etc., who were putting a 'British take on American music'. He wanted to put a 'rock' take on the European classical heritage. To me, that defines 'prog'... as you say, more a fusion of 'rock' and classical (meaning very strictly defined song forms, not a lot of improv, and lush orchestration).
All those Yes concerts I attended in my youth started with Stravinsky's Firebird playing on the PA (I think... Rite of Spring... can't remember!) as the band came on stage and then continued playing the Stravinsky as the recording faded, prior to kicking into one of their tunes. That was the perfect metaphor for and definition of 'prog' to me.... classical/rock fusion.
Bela... again, another wonderful 'fusion' of bluegrass and rock/electric jazz IMO.
No, and I think you might have clearly stated one of the major differences between the two genres, despite some of the similarities I have mentioned. As much as prog rock is some English guy's idea of fusion in 1971, it's even more his idea of classical music. Nowhere was that more evident then in the sounds of Yes, ELP and KC.
Right the first time: It was the finale from The Firebird Suite...which they usually dovetailed into "Siberian Khatru"
I wonder how many Stravinsky fans discovered his music through Yes? (raises hand)
Yes - Fragile thru Drama
ELP - Tarkus thru Works Vol1
King Crimson - just about anything.
Bruford - One of a Kind
There's a ton of other stuff in this genre I love too, I just don't have enough time to get the names. But so far, there's nothing on this list that I don't think belongs.
Oh, and then there's [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] too.
ELP - Tarkus thru Works Vol1
King Crimson - just about anything.
Bruford - One of a Kind
There's a ton of other stuff in this genre I love too, I just don't have enough time to get the names. But so far, there's nothing on this list that I don't think belongs.
Oh, and then there's [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] too.
slowburnaz
Commercial User
Some of that, maybe. Maybe I'm confused a bit about what prog is, but I can't see how The Dear Hunter (or maybe The Pineapple Thief) isn't prog, given the whole concept album/evolving song structure thing.
And hell, while I'm writing this, I may as well throw Anekdoten's Nucleus out there. Great album! Friggin weird, but great!
+1 I sure did. That was so over the top when you look back on it, but as a young player searching for something a little deeper than the typical garage band guitar rock, it was quite an eye opener on many different levels!
- Jan 13, 2011
- 118
- 0
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Spector Basses, Curt Mangan Strings
Before my lifetime:
Yes - Fragile
Rush - Permanent Waves
Pink Floyd - The Wall
During my lifetime:
Dream Theater: Metropolis Part II: Scenes from a Memory
Porcupine Tree: Fear of a Blank Planet
Tool: 10,000 Days
Yes - Fragile
Rush - Permanent Waves
Pink Floyd - The Wall
During my lifetime:
Dream Theater: Metropolis Part II: Scenes from a Memory
Porcupine Tree: Fear of a Blank Planet
Tool: 10,000 Days
Well, I am mostly hearing the same type of vocals and sound that most College/indie bands have. Yes, it's creative, yes, somewhat interesting with a lot of twist and turns....but so is Frank Zappa and I would classify that more as art rock then prog rock. Stylistically, many of the indie bands seem to take a LOT more from latter- day new wave bands such as talking heads, U2 and REM then they do from any type of prog...
Really, sometimes it is hard to define prog rock for me...except I often know what it isn't, more then what it actually is. I feel it might be just restricted to a certain time period, say, 1970 to 1980, with 1974-75 being the peak (when punk and Disco were first starting)
And overall, I really feel it is restricted to mainly English bands...bands that were so influential themselves that they inspired so many modern bands such as porcupine tree, Dream Theatre and even bands such as Queensryche, which not in a million years would I consider true prog rock.
Maybe the best way for me to define it in a way that makes sense to me is that is is English (or canadian!) bands from the 70's that were very much taking off where the beatles left off, and trying to create a very symphonic sound with their music, all the while showing a high degree of musicianship. The lyrics (and here is the major difference between prog and some of these shoegazing indie bands mentioned here) were almost NEVER about relationships, love, girls, angst...etc....the instruments focused a lot on keyboards for the most part, and those keyboards were hammond organs, oberheim synths and mellotrons and were played by guys wearing capes who had classical training...
Oh, and for the most part girls hated this type of music and were only dragged to the concerts because their guitar playing boyfriends made them go. (with indie rock, a lot of chicks like it)
All in all, there is a great deal of pretentious behavior associated with prog rock. reading the Yes biography clearly illustrates this, the chanting, candlelight song writing, recording the organ in a stone church, vegetarianism and interest in new age philosophy..it's really all very spinal tappish...
Whereas, the indie rock is more serious, also pretentious but in a different sort of, "trust fund college kid" type of way.
prog rock was more "Mystic"...indie rock is more "introspective".
Does any of this make sense?
Yes, I totally overlooked the vocal component, huge difference. Also, technically speaking, the prog guys were somewhat constrained in that they were playing and singing at the same time.
Certainly would compromise my bass playing if I were having to play and sing vocal harmonies to music as complex as Yes.
Fun side note on "entrance" music, do any of you remember Rush playing cartoon music as their entrance music? I seem to recall Looney Tunes or something through the sound system as the band took the stage in darkness, then ripping into Spirit of the Radio...!! Awesome tune!
oh...just recalled this great prog masterpiece....La Villa Strangiato!!
Great concert experience...Rush at Radio City Music Hall, 3rd row seats ...2 nights in a row!! i was in high school in the early 80's.
This thread is conjuring up all kinds of great memories!
Certainly would compromise my bass playing if I were having to play and sing vocal harmonies to music as complex as Yes.
Fun side note on "entrance" music, do any of you remember Rush playing cartoon music as their entrance music? I seem to recall Looney Tunes or something through the sound system as the band took the stage in darkness, then ripping into Spirit of the Radio...!! Awesome tune!
oh...just recalled this great prog masterpiece....La Villa Strangiato!!
Great concert experience...Rush at Radio City Music Hall, 3rd row seats ...2 nights in a row!! i was in high school in the early 80's.
This thread is conjuring up all kinds of great memories!
Yes - Close to the Edge
Jethro Tull - Thick as a Brick
Emerson Lake and Palmer - Tarkus
Gentle Giant - Octopus
Rush - Hemispheres
Genesis - Foxtrot
Jethro Tull - Thick as a Brick
Emerson Lake and Palmer - Tarkus
Gentle Giant - Octopus
Rush - Hemispheres
Genesis - Foxtrot
That's interesting! I grew up with classical music, been into it my whole life....and what bands like YES did for me was show me that it wasn't just for nerds, and could actually be really cool!
Listen to the live ELP version on "the enemy god dances"...man, that's powerful!
Really, the first time I ever heard YES was when I was about 12 maybe, and was at a classical music camp up in the mountains...one of the CITs was a really cool japanese violinist who was blasting "close to the edge" from a loud hi-fi stereo in his cabin, and we were all gathered around going "whoaaaa!!!" That more or less sealed the deal for me concerning prog rock. Up until that time I was mainly into Aerosmith and other 70's rock bands...hearing YES for the first time quite literally changed me inside. I think it helped make me better as a musican, but beyond that, brought me real joy!
Regarding RUSH, I read some post on this forum a while back where a poster said RUSH was NOT Prog rock....I couldn't believe what I was reading! RUSH is very much prog rock, in every sense of the word! They have practically all the elements...and they have even followed the same career arc as a lot of prog rock bands did, where they really commercialized their sound and shortened the length of the songs in later years. But albums like Farewell to kings...all I can say is RUSH rules!
(My vote for ultimate prog rock album still is "Close to the edge", though!)
I'm glad someone else mentioned this band, even if it's a different album from the one I listed. Really underrated/unknown band. Good stuff--highly recommended (especially "A Tab In The Ocean.")
YES! Killer album.
To be serious: Can's Tago Mayo.
Wholeheartedly agree, and I'm surprised there hasn't been more disussion of Can. "Tago Mago" and their first album, "Monster Movies" are two of my favorites. Encompassing prog, minimalism, krautrock/motorik and deep grooves. After these albums, they moved into more of a jazz fusion territory that I don't care for as much.
Lots of great bands/albums mentioned on this thread. Love some Tull, King Crimsons first album is quintessentially prog (and they have s many great albums, may of which have been touched on in this thread...) Gabriel-era Genesis...
This may be sacrilege, but I never cared much for Yes, though I happily grant they are astonishing musicians and I have studied the work of Chris Squire in my bass-playing.
You guys will probably tell me to get off your lawn, but I'm kind of more into the newer prog...
Colors by Between the Buried and Me is easily the best composed progressive metal album I've ever heard. I can't believe no one's mentioned them yet...
Fortress by Protest the Hero is also one of my all time favorites... It might not technically be prog, but it's SO technical and SO catchy. They pull it off without any visible effort, too...
Crack the Skye by Mastodon is also fantastic... I wish their vocals weren't atrocious in the live DVD.
Colors by Between the Buried and Me is easily the best composed progressive metal album I've ever heard. I can't believe no one's mentioned them yet...
Fortress by Protest the Hero is also one of my all time favorites... It might not technically be prog, but it's SO technical and SO catchy. They pull it off without any visible effort, too...
Crack the Skye by Mastodon is also fantastic... I wish their vocals weren't atrocious in the live DVD.
