So, Greenboy designs are the toast of the town. And I even almost bought a Jhawk dually (stupid truck repairs.) But now I need a midrange crushing cab for synth keys, so a Greenboy 2x12 is back on the options list. But the price is really high and would be super tough to swing. So what reeeeeeally makes them so special? Because I could get an Avatar 2x12 cab for worlds less. And I have an Avatar B410 that completely kicks ass, so I definitely trust Avatar. So....Greenboy or Avatar? Gurus, I prithee: speak thy wisdom!
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Greenboy designs: what makes them so special? OR: the ultimate synth cabinet.
- Thread starter ArturoOsito
- Start date
Crushing mid range for synth keys?
Neither a Dually or an Avatar 2x12 IMO. Just can't see where a 2x12 is your best bet no matter what design house it comes out of.
Build a 66 - with a D220ti horn driver and a three-way xover mod. That'll crush your synth your keys.
Neither a Dually or an Avatar 2x12 IMO. Just can't see where a 2x12 is your best bet no matter what design house it comes out of.
Build a 66 - with a D220ti horn driver and a three-way xover mod. That'll crush your synth your keys.
I love how no matter what you ask in this forum, some people will just ignore the question entirely and tell you what they think you should do.
All I wanted to know was, what makes a Greenboy cab special? Why the huge price tag? Is a greenboy 2x12 really that much better/louder than an Avatar? And if so, why? What is the difference?
I've read loads about Greenboy designs but I'd love to hear those in the know actually explain the difference.
All I wanted to know was, what makes a Greenboy cab special? Why the huge price tag? Is a greenboy 2x12 really that much better/louder than an Avatar? And if so, why? What is the difference?
I've read loads about Greenboy designs but I'd love to hear those in the know actually explain the difference.
What makes them special is that a dude scoured the world looking for speakers that would do better than any others for bass, without costing $800 a pop. Then he designed the best possible box there was for these speakers, and he put them in it. Then, he made a really effective crossover (that ain't easy work, and it's not for the dull, nor the faint of heart), that worked beautifully with said speakers. Then he gave the world this design for free.
Then he made some other boxes that he's not giving away blueprints for, because he has to eat food and prefers life outside a cave.
Why so expensive? Because they're hand-built to order. Price out a built-to-order sedan, and I don't think GB cabs seem all that expensive anymore
Then he made some other boxes that he's not giving away blueprints for, because he has to eat food and prefers life outside a cave.
Why so expensive? Because they're hand-built to order. Price out a built-to-order sedan, and I don't think GB cabs seem all that expensive anymore
I love how some posters can't create threads properly and then yell at people who make constructive suggestions. Your thread title has "OR: the ultimate synth cabinet" right at the top of the page. What did you expect? That no one would offer suggestions about that part of the subject? Geez.
Second, Greenboy only has 2 cabs which have two 12" drivers: the fEARful 1212sub (two LF drivers only) and the fEARful 1212/6 (two LF drivers, a mid driver, and optional HF horn). Those two designs are for completely different applications. The 1212sub isn't designed to put out midrange, and IIRC has a low-pass filter crossover with a cutoff frequency at about 850 Hz, so that one certainly doesn't seem to be what you're after. I'll assume then you're referring to the 1212/6 as "the Greenboy 2x12".
Avatar's B212 cabinet has nothing in common with the fEARful 1212/6. The Avatar cabinet uses either a Delta-12lfa driver (or a similar OEM model) in "full-range" configuration where the pair is asked to cover everything from the low-end all the way up to the Foster compression horn, likely ~4kHz or so. If you look at the frequency response of the Delta-12lfa driver, it isn't very flat in the upper midrange. So some of your upper midrange is going to be exaggerated, and some of it will likely be missing.
Hence the first advantage of the dedicated 18sound midrange driver in the fEARful 1212/6, which is a more "even" frequency response. The dedicated midrange allows the Kappalite 3012LF to handle a more reasonable range up to ~850Hz or so, while the mid driver either handles ~850Hz on up, or ~850 to about ~4kHz if you use the newer 3-way crossover design with a dedicated HF driver. The result is a more even response across the frequency spectrum, and a more hifi tone as a result. You could send a PA signal through it and it wouldn't sound bad, unlike the Avatar B212.
Plus, the different drivers in the two cabinets have completely different XMax, resonance frequency, etc. They are going to produce different volume levels, yield different response curves (especially towards the lowest end of the spectrum), and have different responsiveness characteristics, etc. I would expect the Kappalite 3012LF in the 1212/6 to win that battle hands-down, and the higher XMax will likely allow it to move much more air, making it significantly louder. It will likely also reach lower, producing frequencies that the B212 can't touch.
Finally, there are other aspects like the weight. The fEARful will be almost certainly be lighter, even if you spec out the B212 with neo speakers. Avatar isn't known for making lightweight cabinets.
Honestly, if you want to compare any of the Avatar cabinets to the fEARful line, it should be the TB153. It has a 3-way design much closer to the fEARful, and there have been entire threads dedicated to discussing its pros/cons. I have a 4-ohm TB153 and love it.
Dude, if you're looking for a reason to save some cash by sticking with the Avatar, who are we to stand in your way? You don't need any of us to ratify or justify your decision for you. Just do what you want.
MM
They are expensive because the components are expensive and the builder network is small. The avatar three way or Carvin LS1503 (this is the cab that started the fearful craze) would be great suggestions that should work well for synth on a budget.
No... Your statement evidences a failure to understand what happened.
That fairly pedestrian and inexpensive 3-way PA cab was used as a test bed for modifications which were made to demonstrate some of the design concepts espoused by the man who went on to design the fEARful and fEARless lines of modular cabs.
Other than fact it is a 3-way cab the LS1503 is a far cry from a greenboy designed cab in every way conceivable = weight & construction method / port size & tuning / crossover complexity and power rating / driver quality and output / et cetera, et cetera, et cetera...
===
To the OP:
My freedom to provide unwelcome commentary shall not be limited by your ability to pose an ill-formed query.
A 2x12 cab for "crushing synth keys" is poor choice no matter how you pose the question.
===
Well GB does proffer the Dually [an old school vibe 2-driver bass cab in both 2x12 and 2x15] which apparently the OP was considering for purchase. But as you correctly point out like all of GB's designs the cab weight / bracing scheme, driver quality including HF options are on a different level than the cab he wants to compare...
Link Removed
...and as unwelcome as my opinion may be - I think an old school 2 driver bass cab is not the way to go for a "crushing mids for synth keys" cab.
YMMV
True... its not controversial... its wrong.
GB's musings on better bass cabs neither began nor ended with cheap Carvin PA cabs.
Don't believe me?
Just ask him.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
IMO, Avatar cabs are fairly mediocre - they're like comparing generic foods to top shelf name brands: sure, they both fill you up, but one is not as satisfying as the other...
Regarding price differences - IMO, the custom built GB designed cabs aren't overly expensive, when you consider the quality of components and build - after all, Bergantino or Mesa cabs aren't cheap, either... This truly is a case of getting what you pay for...
- georgestrings
Regarding price differences - IMO, the custom built GB designed cabs aren't overly expensive, when you consider the quality of components and build - after all, Bergantino or Mesa cabs aren't cheap, either... This truly is a case of getting what you pay for...
- georgestrings
I thought he liked the cave?
He really prefers a remote mountain cabin in Montana...
MM
I play a fEARful cab and it totally rocks. My friend plays an Avater 410 which for the price sounds pretty damn good too. On a budget and handy with tools build yourself a fEARful 15/6/1. With a synth and enough juice it would crush. Need more add a 15/sub down the road.
The science, design, and measurements of the Greenboy designs are all out there for anybody to fully review.
If you don't understand the science and measurements find somebody who does and buy them a beer to explain it to you.
Cabinets like Avatar have nothing to show you. Only testimony. They may "look" similar but they are nowhere near the same. And they don't bother to even try to provide any information other than fan-tisize.
If you don't understand the science and measurements find somebody who does and buy them a beer to explain it to you.
Cabinets like Avatar have nothing to show you. Only testimony. They may "look" similar but they are nowhere near the same. And they don't bother to even try to provide any information other than fan-tisize.
Absolutely. Especially with the new true 3-way crossover, this would be an amazing cabinet for full range keyboards. Talk to Foz, sclift, or me about the crossover.
I built my 15/6/1 for about $650 from a kit, and it's the best cabinet I've ever played(and ive played some good ones). Not a bad deal.
What's special about the GB cabinets is that they are well designed PA style cabinets (meaning they stick to sound engineering principles), optimized for bass players (extended bass response, efficient, high output). No mumbo-jumbo, just open honest specs.
That shouldn't be special, right? All bass cabinets should do that, but most don't.
What's so special about fEARful?
The design.
The drivers.
The fact that the design is FREE. Its very seldom you find anything free this awesome in this world.
The build quality is outstanding from the Authorized Builders.
If you have the time and space you can build them yourself for siginificant savings. Likely wont be as nice a build as an AB unless you are quite a skilled wood worker with a well equipped shop. Personally, I built mine with no woodworking experience whatsover and a $25 jigsaw, a drill, carpenter's squatre and a few clamps.
Last night I had my 12/6 +12sub at a gig and they sounded huge and were capable of taking a heck of a lot more volume than I was giving them. At the end of the night it was dead easy to drop a couple 36LB and 30LB casb onto my hand cart and roll on out of there.
Really hard to beat this scenario and thats why my cab GAS is completely gone.
The design.
The drivers.
The fact that the design is FREE. Its very seldom you find anything free this awesome in this world.
The build quality is outstanding from the Authorized Builders.
If you have the time and space you can build them yourself for siginificant savings. Likely wont be as nice a build as an AB unless you are quite a skilled wood worker with a well equipped shop. Personally, I built mine with no woodworking experience whatsover and a $25 jigsaw, a drill, carpenter's squatre and a few clamps.
Last night I had my 12/6 +12sub at a gig and they sounded huge and were capable of taking a heck of a lot more volume than I was giving them. At the end of the night it was dead easy to drop a couple 36LB and 30LB casb onto my hand cart and roll on out of there.
Really hard to beat this scenario and thats why my cab GAS is completely gone.
Your original question makes no sense if that statement is true.
Build/buy one of the GB 3-way cabs and call it a day. Or get a cheaper 3-way cab. No skin of my hind quarters either way.
Joseph Hawley of jHAWK Customs has made me five Greenboy cabs. They're all amazing for tone, volume and weight performance, and Joseph does excellent quality craftsmanship.
Here is what a Fearless 110 sounds like at a gig:
Here is what a Fearless 110 sounds like at a gig:
