Guitar detuning to D: what are my options?

[Ralph124C41]

I have played a 5 string, used a D tuner, and just played an octave up. It depends on who you are playing. Will these guys notice if you play the higher register D?

Well, as I said, the leader has played bass for years so I am certain he will notice. Secondly, I will notice ... and that is very important to me.

 

[JRA]

As for the 5-string, I agree that is probably the most logical choice.

logical choice! good luck! let us know what happens.

 

[mellowinman]

I'm starting to think you have a crush on me with these posts. No, everyone (for the most part) was conscious, and the check always cleared. No, the general public is not as anal as some TB posters.

I don't like to get all serious, but I have to point out that I do not have a crush on you, and no one has to be "anal" to notice a low D is played an octave higher. There is a certain push a low D has, and audiences like it, and that's why it exists in the songs it exists in.

I respond to many of your posts because they cry out for a response. Try to keep up.

 

[socialleper]

Yesterday I got accepted into a start-up new country/classic rock band. The guitarist tuns down to D. So to quickly learn the songs needed for the tryout I just detuned my short-scale bass to D. It got me though enough to land the post but I really didn't like how my bass sounded, especially on that almost floppy D string.

Now that I am accepted and can properly learn the songs how would you folks suggest I do to get the optimal sound for our gigs. I see my options are:

1) Just do what I did as the short-scale, semi-hollow is my go-to bass.
2) Use one of my regular-scale basses, also tuned to D. I understand the tension would be higher and so the "floppiness" may be less.
3) Tune in E, and learn the songs and just adjust for the tuning differences. That's fine but I will lose some of those lower notes.
4) Tune in E but use drop D tuning. It will be hard at first as I have only played out that way on a few songs. If I do this would, as in No. 2, it best to use my regular-scale basses. I don't have any long-scale basses.
5) Finally get around to learning how to play my 5-string bass. I've had it for several years and I've never played out with it or done much with it, except to get it repaired. (It has active pickups and the thing was always "on" even with the cable out.

Also I wonder if maybe just a string change may help. On my short scale I am using some La Bella Deep-Talking flats with an E strong of .105. I think they are sometimes called low tension strings but I don't know.

On my others I have D'addario Chromes flats in medium gauge, Fender flats in medium gauge. I forget what I have on my 5-string but they are either Chromes or D'Addario halfrounds or whatever they are called. I also have an Ibanez Iceman with non-flats; I think they may be medium gauge Boomers but I don't remember.

Sorry for being so wordy but I have never come across this problem before.

Get a set of .110 strings from Bassstringsonline.com and you will be fine. My personal preference is for DR Lo Riders.

 

[QweziRider]

5) Finally get around to learning how to play my 5-string bass.

That's what I would do. Or tune a four stringer to BEAD using the lower 4 strings of a 5 string set. Wold likely need to widen nut slots a touch, but this has always worked well on all my four stringers.

 

[Ralph124C41]

That's what I would do. Or tune a four stringer to BEAD using the lower 4 strings of a 5 string set. Wold likely need to widen nut slots a touch, but this has always worked well on all my four stringers.

Thanks for your suggestion on the BEAD but I've already ruled that out in one of my answers, primarily because some of the songs the band wants to do will require me to play very high on the fretboard so I need the higher notes of the G string.

Get a set of .110 strings from Bassstringsonline.com and you will be fine. My personal preference is for DR Lo Riders.

I already have .105 strings. Will that extra .005 mm make that much of a difference? I do like DR strings on my electric and my acoustic and I think I tried a set years and years ago of DR strings but I wasn't that impressed. Btw, the DR strings I use on my acoustic, the Rares, are known to be low tension strings. But I've heard some good things about the Lo Riders so I certainly can give them a try.

 

[socialleper]

Thanks for your suggestion on the BEAD but I've already ruled that out in one of my answers, primarily because some of the songs the band wants to do will require me to play very high on the fretboard so I need the higher notes of the G string.



I already have .105 strings. Will that extra .005 mm make that much of a difference? I do like DR strings on my electric and my acoustic and I think I tried a set years and years ago of DR strings but I wasn't that impressed. Btw, the DR strings I use on my acoustic, the Rares, are known to be low tension strings. But I've heard some good things about the Lo Riders so I certainly can give them a try.

The Lo Rider set is a hex core string, which is a little tighter\stiffer than the round core High Beams. Yes, the extra .005" (inch not mm) makes a difference. D'Addario and GHS Boomers are stiffer still, but I don't think GHS makes a .110. They have a .115 though. You could also look at the DR Phat Beams, which are SS and fairly stiff, but only come in .105.
You can also raise your action a touch, or check your neck relief to balance the change in tension. I'm constantly tweaking my setup, so these things don't bother me.

 

[Ralph124C41]

The Lo Rider set is a hex core string, which is a little tighter\stiffer than the round core High Beams. Yes, the extra .005" (inch not mm) makes a difference. D'Addario and GHS Boomers are stiffer still, but I don't think GHS makes a .110. They have a .115 though. You could also look at the DR Phat Beams, which are SS and fairly stiff, but only come in .105.
You can also raise your action a touch, or check your neck relief to balance the change in tension. I'm constantly tweaking my setup, so these things don't bother me.

Great info! Anybody here have any info on the DR Drop Down Tuning set which also has a .110? They seem to be about 50 percent more expensive, however, than the Low Riders.

 

[mesaplayer83]

How did those poor bass players in the 60s and early 70s ever cope with D-tuning guitarists before Anthony Jackson got Carl Thompson to make him his first Contrabass?

Simple - it is a fact that the music they played didn't require it as playing much of today's music *accurately* does...

 

[QweziRider]

Thanks for your suggestion on the BEAD but I've already ruled that out in one of my answers, primarily because some of the songs the band wants to do will require me to play very high on the fretboard so I need the higher notes of the G string.

If you're using the last 5 notes of the G string, that is true.

 

[lfmn16]

Secondly, I will notice ... and that is very important to me.

No other explanation required. Whether we admit it or not, most of what we do is for professional pride, because most of the audience and band members don't notice.

I've been told many times that I 'nailed' a part even though it wasn't exactly like the original.

 

[The Nameless]

I just play a 5. I've never understood the resistance this causes in players. For me? I gotta get, and keep, a job. Switching tunings, switching basses, isn't efficient and rarely lands me gigs. What does, occasionally, land me gigs is already being in tune for every song on a list. Before the guitarist. Heh. That efficiency alone will impress bandleaders. And I have fun treating my bass like a piano. I have all keys, all the time. Less stress an thot on a gig, for me, adds to a better player for hire.

 

[tlc1976]

I'd use the 5 string. #1 you already have it. #2 a lot of country since the early 90s uses 5 string, and it doesn't stop at D, I can think of several songs right off the bat that go all the way down to B.

 

[socialleper]

Great info! Anybody here have any info on the DR Drop Down Tuning set which also has a .110? They seem to be about 50 percent more expensive, however, than the Low Riders.

I have tried the DDT set as well. They are a little strange. If the skinny on them is to be believed, what DR did is spray some the core of these strings with the something they used to use on their "Long lasting" strings, so that way the wrap would "stick" to the core better, making a more stable string. If you like a string that is a little broken in sounding, they may work for you. I didn't care for the tone and didn't get a better feeling out of them. You may like them better.
A few other brands offer a "heavy core" string, which has a thicker core but more or less the same gauge, in the pursuit of a more stable string.

 

[socialleper]

My $0.02 is that I've never liked the idea of using a 5 string for anything but for songs written with an open B in mind. I don't like transposing on the fly, and it seriously messes up certain techniques. I probably depends on how fast the music you are playing is, and how complex it is.

 

[mesaplayer83]

My $0.02 is that I've never liked the idea of using a 5 string for anything but for songs written with an open B in mind. I don't like transposing on the fly, and it seriously messes up certain techniques. I probably depends on how fast the music you are playing is, and how complex it is.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but given the context of the OP, the above doesn't make sense(to me)... For starters, much of the music he's talking about playing was actually written with the 5 string bass in mind... Next, taken to it's logical conclusion, would you also only play a 4 string for songs written with an open E in mind?

 

[prowla]

I've got a 5-string bass and you can threat it as a 4-string where you have a spare 5 notes below. The good things is that everything is where it's supposed to be and it's tuned normally.

I've also got a bass with a Hipshot, which allows you to drop to a D if you need it. The disadvantage is that it's shifted your bottom string along two frets.

 

[Razman]

Get an ExFactor or learn the 5str.

I've always GAS'ed for an ExFactor and almost got one before going to a five string. However, for songs I need to detune to D for I've learned the patterns on a detuned 4 string so moving to a Factor bass would cause me to relearn all of those patterns - so it's not something I want to tackle any more.

.010 heavier gauge string on the E string, drop it, no floppy, all is well

This, as many others have posted.

Yeah, I agree with ya'. I was playing both 4's and 5's, and switching whenever the song called for a real B, then, my choice of basses was determined for me. I switched to 5's out of necessity, my gear got stolen, and I could only afford to replace one bass. That pretty much meant I was going to be playing a 5er. That was years before we formed the band I'm in now, and I've been in this band for 15 years! Same type of schedule, 100+ gigs/yr(plus we've already booked most of next year!), and almost all of that has been on a 5er. I've had a few 4's over the years, but I never really played them. I'm so used to playing 5's, that 4's just feel bizarre. BUT, I just ordered another 4-string, because of my one issue with playing a 5er...

Dropped-D.

99.8% of the time, dropped-D on a 5 is simple. It may require some finger gymnastics(I like to use Slither/Velvet Revolver as an example), but it's very doable. That other .2%, can't really be played any other way(Killing In The Name/RATM)but in Dropped-D, and, to me, Dropped-D sounds better on a 4 than a 5. Sure, you can tune to Dropped-D on a 5, but it just doesn't sound the same and there's that extra string that you're not gonna use...

Still, if I was gonna pick one bass to play "bro country", it would, without a doubt and in no uncertain terms, be a 5er...

I'm in the same boat in that there are a small handful of songs we play that require a dropped D string in order to play fast enough - Creed's "What if" is one, along with "Full Circle" by Otherwise. These songs require hitting that D quickly and accurately and trying to perform those finger gymnastics on a fiver tuned to E is impractical.

Now that I've had a taste of a six string (and even a seven) I can't go back to a narrow-necked bass. I get cramps when I try to play my sixer. Even my five string now feels narrow to me, and the 18mm spacing feels too wide. If I use a second drop-d bass it will be a fiver with a detuned E string.

Great info! Anybody here have any info on the DR Drop Down Tuning set which also has a .110? They seem to be about 50 percent more expensive, however, than the Low Riders.

Not sure why they are so much more - is that an online price? I used to use them until I switched to Kalium strings, which last much longer for me. DR's of any flavor only gave me about three months worth of life. My current set of Kaliums I've had on my fiver for a year and a half, which is WAAAAY longer than I prefer even for them - but they still sound great (but don't have as much brightness as I like). Tone is still good though with them.

OP, play what you are comfortable with, but don't be afraid to take the plunge into a five string or drop-D tuning. For me, it seemed that transitioning from a 4 to a 5 was the most challenging (resetting my brain regarding that low string reference point). Going to a 6 was pretty easy. Then I tried a 7, and want to play them exclusively now! Even adjusting to a low F# was not difficult for some reason. 10 years ago when I first picked up a Conklin at Bass Central, I didn't have the slightest clue how to wield it. Now is a different story though (and I'm no Vic W. either).

Enjoy the journey...

Raz

 

[Hopkins]

Its been my experience that it is much easier to play a 4 string in drop D than it is to play drop D songs in standard tuning on a 5 string.

 

[Timmy-Watts]

Either way, regardless if all the songs are down a step from the recording or now, with a Low D on the guitar, you're gonna want your own low D.

I love a great 4 string bass, so if you go that route, if play at least a standard scale, and install a Hipshot to drop the E on songs you need it. I have done that to all my 4 strings over the years. Just think of that string as another D string (mentally helps me transpose), as if doubling the notes on the regular D string. Labella flats 105 (not at all low tension) work great for this, and the Labella nickel rounds have a set that is like regular 45's but the E is a 110 instead of 105. Works great for dropping to D. I use this approach if the right bass is a 4 and I need to flick the switch just for a few songs. If everything is transposed lower, I...

use a 5 string.