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Guitar only likes parts that're complex in theory

#41
If I were you, I'd put up with it long enough to find another band. Keep your eyes and ears open! Who says you have to stay? Just make sure that when you 'jump', you know where you're landing.
People at bars and clubs want simple stuff. They ain't physics teachers and all they want to do is dance and have fun. Club owners want this, too.
The complicated stuff gets boring after a while, especially the stuff that doesn't let you sit in a pocket and groove.
Dude, it's apparent you ain't happy. Look out for #1.
 
#42
spade2you said:
Then money isn't the end point?

I'm not bashing cover bands, but the double standard exists to bash original bands, especially anything "complex" by today's standards. I'm in a "complex" band and we're hoping to play for more than 1 person and hoping that more than 1 person will "groove" to it.
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For me personally, I love some complex and "deeper" music. One of my friends plays in a progressive-ish rock band and they have some good stuff.

My issue is that 90% of original complex music is pretentious and not all that interesting - it's complex just for the sake of being complex. Even Rush, Dream Theater, Protest the Hero, and Animals as Leaders have some serious songcraft in their music. Many local acts lack that.
 
#43
LiquidMidnight said:
My issue is that 90% of original complex music is pretentious and not all that interesting - it's complex just for the sake of being complex. Even Rush, Dream Theater, Protest the Hero, and Animals as Leaders have some serious songcraft in their music. Many local acts lack that.
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Yes and its great music loved allot by other musicians and dudes AKA Sausage fests :hmm:
 
#45
JimmyM said:
If you don't like what he writes, write some stuff of your own.

BTW, nice to see this thread only took two replies to get to the "fire him" stage. That's one post longer than usual. JMatt, I'm surprised at you! Not every situation requires a firing.
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Ha! :D

You're right; If they can work things out then cool, but from what I can gather from the OP it seems like the guitarist is fairly set in his ideas. It seems like the OP and his drummer want something else, and if the guitarist isn't willing to compromise any (which is his choice) then I think they'd be better off spending time finding someone else who gels more with their vibes.

That, or they can make this more of an experimental group, and they can start another group to more traditional stuff.
 
#46
LiquidMidnight said:
For me personally, I love some complex and "deeper" music. One of my friends plays in a progressive-ish rock band and they have some good stuff.

My issue is that 90% of original complex music is pretentious and not all that interesting - it's complex just for the sake of being complex. Even Rush, Dream Theater, Protest the Hero, and Animals as Leaders have some serious songcraft in their music. Many local acts lack that.
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Complex music isn't pretentious. Bands and fans can be, but not the music itself. Even then, it's hard to compete with the pretentiousness of your average hipster. ;)
 
#49
I have a simple rule- I want to see girls dancing, specifically good looking ones. So I watch whichever ones we have and they are smiling and dancing that is good.

Do they need to do that for every song, No, but modt of the songs they should.

I still like when we do Play that Funky Music- EVERY and I do Mean EVERY Girl in the place dances- including the female bartenders.

Mission. Accomplished.
 
#50
NoiseNinja said:
I think it might have something with the intellectual level of the listener.
The average IQ is about 110 and that's not nearly enough to understand and appreciate the complexitivity of your average prog/math band.
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Possibly. Keep in mind, there's a good amount of folks who get offended with the idea that someone might be smarter or thinks they're smarter than they are.

Most people on the interw3b machine think they're brilliant. Inevitably, someone will think they're smarter and then arguments ensue.
 
#51
Oh man... I am a percussionist in my main band and one of our composers is only into weirdness for weirdness' sake. He brought in a piece where ALL 16 instruments were supposed to play these loops of varying length, so the vibes were playing a 9 note riff, the bass was playing 5 notes, the keys, 13. Then he turned to me and asked me to throw together a conga groove that locked in with nobody.

After jamming on that mess for about 20 minutes, he started trying to do the math so that everyone would do their riff for a specific amount of times so that we would all magically end on the same note. So it was like: "trumpet, you repeat 64 bars, bass... you do 53." It was a total whack-off to the prime number.

Then he started describing the second half of the piece, wherein all the saxophones were going to hold these long, fluttering drones that would go in and out of phase with each other and that's when I announced that I wasn't going to participate until the dude went back on his meds.
 
#52
I have the same problem with jazz guitarists! I know they're talented, but at the end of the day it sounds like the same guy who noodles lead for his hardcore band (w/ a clean tone and better licks).

My cure-all for the over-confident songwriter is by expressing my belief that the challenge is not in blatantly exploding with mind-blowing theory, but apply that theory in a that is only what you want to hear, but in a way that is comprehensive to other players and audience.

My theory behind the guitar player doing that is simply that in progressive music, the guitar player (maybe the drummer) are the ONLY people who get laid. He's steppin on your game boss.
 
#53
obimark said:
I have a simple rule- I want to see girls dancing, specifically good looking ones. So I watch whichever ones we have and they are smiling and dancing that is good.

Do they need to do that for every song, No, but modt of the songs they should.

I still like when we do Play that Funky Music- EVERY and I do Mean EVERY Girl in the place dances- including the female bartenders.

Mission. Accomplished.
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Somehow Pat Metheney doesn't share your music, but seems to be doing quite alright. ;)
 
#55
millsbass5 said:
I hate it when someone that I'm playing with won't "play what's obviously good for the song." That has to come first & foremost. IMO, don't try to do a tempo/key change, or whatever, just for the sake of doing it. Most of it sticks out like a sore thumb.
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I agree that you always have to do what's good for the song, but on the other hand, there was a time when difficult music was really appreciated by the public, and bands like the Mahavishnu Orchestra and Return To Forever were doing arenas and stadiums. Maybe not headlining them, but they were totally respected and people bought their albums in large numbers.

Not that I don't love simple pop and rock songs, but it kind of makes me sad to see so many people try to discourage the adventuresome spirit in the kids coming up today. Listen, the music business as we know it is on its last legs, and trying to dumb your music down to please record company morons who never touched an instrument in their lives is no longer necessary to establish a career. I don't know why anyone would even bother to kiss ass in this day and age.

That isn't to say I think dumbed down music sucks or you shouldn't play it...but if a dude is getting a little "too advanced" so what? Have fun. That's what writing your own music is about. And don't fight him too hard on it, either. Until proven otherwise, he might be onto something that catches on. I'm sure a lot of pop music fans thought Les Claypool was a moron until Primus started catching on, too.

(This post isn't specifically addressed to you, mills...just a general rant ;) )
 
#56
JimmyM said:
Exactly. I decide what my role as a bass player is, not other bass players.
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How many times do you think Jack Bruce was told that he played too many notes?? Pushing the envelope is not for the timid.

I wish there was more support for players who want to explore new territory. I get sick of hearing "the role of the bass player is ..." "serve the song" "less is more" and a host of other tired cliches meant to keep bass players in a little box.

We need more people saying "try something different" "take a chance" "create a sonic landscape" and some new cliches. :D
 
#58
the issue is not whether "difficult music" is better or worse than straightforward stuff, but if the guy writing it fits with what the other guys want to do.

anything played by people who don't like what they're doing or can't really pull it off is not gonna be that great.
 
#60
lfmn16 said:
How many times do you think Jack Bruce was told that he played too many notes?? Pushing the envelope is not for the timid.

I wish there was more support for players who want to explore new territory. I get sick of hearing "the role of the bass player is ..." "serve the song" "less is more" and a host of other tired cliches meant to keep bass players in a little box.

We need more people saying "try something different" "take a chance" "create a sonic landscape" and some new cliches. :D
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I'll help with that!
 

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