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Guitar Scale Acoustic Basses
- Thread starter SBassman
- Start date
Hi, Dave.
I put a set of GHS hybrid strings on an NSD upright last year, and they were famous for breaking during initial installation. However, it was an oddball flat-wound set with gaps between the windings up at the peg head. They would hang on the nut if they weren't treated just right, resulting in a broken string. Thanks to advice from Bob Golihur, I was able to install mine without any issues.
However, that was a specialty application, and a known problem.
La Bella's explanation sounds fishy to me. The CB40's are designed to work with the small-diameter posts on a regular slot-head classical guitar, so they should be fine on a GSAB.
I'm also suspicious because I've put CB40's on three basses so far, with no problems.
The only issue I ran into, was that re-installation turned out to be a pain after I took them off my Ibanez AVNB1E during normal maintenance.
Rather than fiddle around with pliers trying to re-form the cut end so it would go back into the tuner, I decided to enlarge the hole in the post slightly.
I didn't have to open it up by very much. If you look at this photo, the red arrow shows where the drill created a tiny nick in the inner wall of the post:
I suspect that there's something else going on in your case.
I can't seem to find your original post- what kind of bass did you install the CB40's on, and exactly where did the E string break?
If you could send us a photo of the installed string on the post like this one, we might be able to help you figure out what went wrong...
Attachments
@steve_rolfeca
I think you may be onto something, here, thank you.
The string was installed on an Ibanez Pnb14e. It broke between the nut and tuner. I have a new one on there now, tuned very low. The thinking is I bring it up to pitch slowly over the course of few days...Doesn't mean I'm right, just my thought.
It makes sense that the size of the tuner shaft should at least be the same as a guitar, so that shouldn't be the issue.
Now you've got me thinking about taking off a little of the sides of the nut in the E slot. It broke between the nut and tuner.
What was the fix from Bob Gollihur about your strings?
A quick look at Stewmac classical guitar tuners has the shaft width on a few sets at 9.5-ish mm. I measured the Ibanez tuner to 7.6mm...
I've been working on the eq with my PNB14E - still trying to find the sweet spot. The stock strings have that finger noise that I'm also trying to make peace with - hopefully using it in a musical way. Give it a listen here:
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[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
I've never seen a plastic or bone nut that was so badly cut that it broke strings, at least on a guitar or electric bass. That tends to happen more often when you find a burr on a metal bridge saddle.
Still, a well-shaped nut always helps with tuning stability. Here's what I look for:
- A clean, sharp break angle over the front edge of the nut, and the back part of the slot rounding off a little as it tapers back toward the headstock.
- A slight V shape on the sides of the slot, to prevent the string from binding in the slot.
- I used to use graphite as a lube, but I've found that nut sauce works better.
We're talking a 42" scale and lots of tension. As you can imagine, they stretch quite a bit on their way up to pitch, resulting in more movement over the nut.
Golihur's advice was to make sure that the nut was properly shaped, use lube, and to repeatedly lift the string up off the nut as I was bringing it up to pitch.
If a string is hanging up in the slot and under too much tension, I think that lifting it up immediately is the best strategy. Taking a couple of days to finish tuning up, just leaves it stuck and over-stretched that much longer.
Sure enough, the back edge of the nut on my EUB had a hard, sharp edge. The break angle was very steep on the E and G strings, and I could see how that could catch between the windings.
So, I rounded it off, added some nut sauce, and released the tension over the nut a couple of times during tuneup. The result was good tuning stability, and no breakage.
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Interesting.
Still, these instruments all seem to use roughly the same mid-sized tuners, like you commonly see on offshore short-scale basses.
I see that you were measuring with the string still on. I took a string off to measure my Guild, and it came in at a spindly 7.05mm. That was probably just because I had my callipers right up at the narrowest point on the shaft.
No breakage on the Guild, so I'm thinking that yours was more likely caused by one or the more common causes:
- Over-tightening the string during tuneup.
- Sharp edges on your hardware.
- Binding in the nut.
- A bad string.
String manufacturers have to know more about all this stuff than we do. Still, I can't buy La Bella's truss rod argument. Perhaps the rep was just trying to be diplomatic, and didn't want to come out and accuse you of over-tightening the string?
This is why I like dealing with Jason at fretnation.com. I have La Bella black nylon tapes on my Dingwall, and the G string was intonating badly up top. These are custom extra-long strings that he special orders from La Bella, and he got me a replacement, no questions asked.
I'll probably never know whether he paid for the replacement, or La Bella comped him a free string. That's the way a class act does business- no excuses, no complaints- just make sure that the client is satisfied.
Vendors like that have a way or winning your loyalty. It's why I faithfully shop with companies like AudioKinesis, Barber, Diamond, Dingwall, Empress, fretnation, G-K, and Gollihur.
Thanks @steve_rolfeca
I’m going to smooth out the nut and try your lifting technique.
I don’t buy LaBella’s argument, either.
I have always been treated very well with Jason, also.
I’m going to smooth out the nut and try your lifting technique.
I don’t buy LaBella’s argument, either.
I have always been treated very well with Jason, also.
I’m happy to report that I’ve had about 36 hours of stability on the set of CB40’s.
I touched up the sides of the nut on the E string and employed the lifting technique described by @steve_rolfeca while tuning up.
I do believe the string was getting caught up in the nut.
So, thanks!
I touched up the sides of the nut on the E string and employed the lifting technique described by @steve_rolfeca while tuning up.
I do believe the string was getting caught up in the nut.
So, thanks!
This damn thread has given me uncontrollable GAS, and combined with the never ending quarantine, it has got the best of me. I just order this [This invalid link has been removed]. Found a coupon code that saved me $50. I'll report back once I have received it and have a chance to get to know her a little. Anyone here grab one of these, and if so, initial impressions. I really like the idea of a side port, as well as the offset soundhole and I'm a sucker for KOA.
On a separate but related note, does anyone else find it odd that the only place to get one of these is Sam Ash?
On a separate but related note, does anyone else find it odd that the only place to get one of these is Sam Ash?
Enjoy it when it arrives, and post lots of commentary and pics so that we can all enjoy.
Yeah, I noticed it when I bought my MKs - Sam Ash to seems to be a big retailer for MK. Maybe the companies are connected in some way.
I think the MK line has come a long way. Lots of beautiful designs in my opinion. In a better world with discretionary income and no apocalypse, I would want that Port model for sure.
With the pinless bridges, for me personally, the MKs are a best pick.
[Really like pinless bridges, really despise pin bridges.]
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MK Sojourn Port pic from their site. Niiiice.
I received my Sojourn Port last Wednesday. It was set up well from the factory and the piezo pickup and preamp work just fine.
I don't like phosphor bronze strings, so I put on a set of LaBella flats that they make for the Gold Tone MicroBass. I bought the strings a year ago for a different project, but they are getting hard to find now. The flats are not as loud, but to me they do sound and feel great.
So far, I am very pleased with the little bass.
The Sam Ash web store and Michael Kelly guitars are both in Florida, so that may be why they have them in stock. That extra discount that they give you at checkout was a welcome surprise, too.
Boy, I am sure with you on that one!
Working a pinned bridge with bass strings is a real PIA!
???
I actually find that pin bridges work a lot better with the nylon-core strings, because they're not as stiff as steels.
I have been using the same routine on ABG's since the late 90's, when I picked up an Epiphone El Capitan. I use a pair of side cutters as a pin puller. Hold 'em gently, of course- don't want to crush or cut the pins. I don't pull on the pin. Instead, I rock the handles down so they lever the pin up out of the hole.
It also helps to push the string a little further down in the hole and then pull it up snug after I insert the pin. Once there's a little tension on the string, I push the pin the rest of the way down.
This is in contrast to acoustic guitars, where I don't set the string as deep, and let the pin push the ball end aside.
IME, bass strings are too stiff for that.
I've done it with steel-core strings since I owned a pinned-bridge Martin acoustic in the '80s. I'm glad my Breedlove and Michael Kelly basses are string-thru. I wish my Guild B-240EF (which wears Chromes) was.
I can see how it would be much easier with nylon-core strings. With steel-cores I bend the ball end of the string just a bit to allow for clearance to insert the pin. A luthier friend of mine taught me that back when I put a set of TIs on the Martin.
