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Guitar Scale Acoustic Basses

How about converting one of these?
https://www.amazon.ca/Enya-Acoustic-Beginner-Acustica-Packaging/dp/B09HC6L4GZ/ref=sr_1_19?crid=CYYWAJLN6I06&keywords=acoustic+bass+guitar&qid=1702406072&sprefix=acoustic+bass+guitar,aps,161&sr=8-19&th=1

Enya nova go. it says it has a 23-5/8" scale, so does that mean any of the typical super-short scale strings would work assuming pegs, bridge and tuners will accommodate the thicker strings?
How handy are you?

Modding an acoustic guitar into a bass is more complicated than typical upgrades on a solid body bass.

The new strings will not fit without mods.

You'll have to swap out the tuners. There's not enough meat in the posts to drill them out for the D'Addario, La Bella or Savarez strings, and I can't imagine that there would be for Aquila Coppers or Savarez either.

Most repair people including myself, would either replace or plug and re-drill the bridge.

On classical guitar bridges, there's a 6-to-4 conversion trick where you tie the 2nd and 4th strings through the 2nd/3rd and 4th/5th string holes to get approximately correct string spacing. But on a pin bridge, you're already going to lose too much meat when you ream out the outer pair of holes for the larger Bass pins.

Other factors to consider:

String tension, action height and intonation:
The Enya's neck, truss rod and top are set up for standard guitar string tension, about 73lb total for D'Addario EJ16 12 to 52's. The current D'Addario XT strings for the GS Mini bass, Cordoba, Guild, Ibanez PNB, etc., are about 50.2lb for a set of 4.

Those numbers are slightly off because of the slight scale differences between a normal acoustic guitar and a 23 to 24 inch bass, but still pretty representative- you're going to have significantly less string tension (roughly 20lb), so hopefully you can slacken the truss rod off enough to compensate. If not, you'll also have to fix a backbow, or possibly correct the heel angle as well.

Regardless, nylon-core bass strings are more flexible than phosphor bronze/steel strings, so you'll need to craft a higher nut to prevent buzzes and rattles when played as a bass.

After the steel-to-nylon conversion, the intonation is probably going to be off anywhere much higher than the 12th fret. If it's reasonably close, you can play around a bit with string brands. Correct intonation point for the La Bella CB40's is slightly different to the D'Addarios, which gives you some wiggle room.

If the intonation isn't good enough to suit you, you can glue small pieces of bone or plastic to the front or back of the saddle above the face of the bridge, then re-shape the contact point to improve the intonation.

You may find that moving the contact point forward or back to improve the intonation will transfer too much of the string pressure to the top of the bridge, spoiling the pickup balance. A bit of fiddling with a jewellers file, and maybe a tiny shim under the pickup, may improve the balance.

If that doesn't work out, the worst-case scenario is to either pull the pickup, fill the saddle slot and then recut a new slot and re-fit the pickup... Or shave the bridge off altogether, and start over with a new bridge blank.

Headstock layout:

In order to mount the new tuners, you can simply ream out the outer 4 peg holes (don't even think about using a drill, even in a drill press, unless you want to risk cracking the headstock). It will work, even if it looks unsightly.

For a nicer appearance, I would plug and re-drill the peg holes, and either paint or veneer the face and back of the headstock in order to hide the damage and make it look more presentable.

In short, is it do-able? Yes.

Is it worth the effort? No way to tell until you are fairly deep into the project.

Best case, the playability is pretty good, the stock electronics work well in the bass register, and you end up with a unique-looking, shallow-bodied bass that works best when amplified. You like it enough that you don't care about resale value, and you feel like you got a good value for the amount invested.

Worst-case, you don't have the necessary skills to bring it up to the sort of quality you could have gotten by buying new. Just to make it playable again, you sink more money into getting a good repairman to fix it up. And if it still doesn't meet your use-case, you take a bath on your investment when you sell it on.

I have made my share of silk purses over the years, and seen other people produce some pretty cool stuff as well, but I see far more failed projects on Facebook Marketplace...
 
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Ha ha, well I would have said I’m fairly handy, but then I read your awesome detailed conversion process.
As usual the pros make something look easy, but it’s anything but. Think I’ll leave the modding to those with more experience (and patience, and skill) than me.
Thanks for the reply and all the info!
Andy
 
So much great information from you knowledgeable folks - thank you.
I'm getting close to pulling the trigger on a GSAB (primarily for unplugged use) and have become aware that some are set up for nylon-core strings (taylor mini, Cordoba Mini, Mitchell) and only a few are set up for metal core (normal) strings. i.e. the MK Port sojourn, which is what I'm leaning towards. I'm thinking I will want to replace the stock PB's, and go with half round/pressure wound or if I have to , flats or chromes to reduce finger noise. Question: Will I be limited in string choices getting the MK?
Thanks
 
...close to pulling the trigger on a GSAB (primarily for unplugged use) and have become aware that some are set up for nylon-core strings (taylor mini, Cordoba Mini, Mitchell) and only a few are set up for metal core (normal) strings. i.e. the MK Port... I'm thinking I will want to replace the stock PB's, and go with half round/pressure wound or if I have to , flats or chromes to reduce finger noise. Question: Will I be limited in string choices getting the MK?
It's important to understand that GASB's modelled after the Taylor, are actually following a long-standing tradition with the Contrabass guitar in classical guitar orchestras.

Nylon-core strings in this scale length work with very few compromises, as long as you acclimatize your attack to the lower string tension.

Steel-strung basses at Ibanez miKro scale length (28.6") are already slightly compromised in the lower octave, intonation-wise. They have the same thick, warm tones as regular short-scale basses, but don't have as much attack and punch.

Steel-strung GSEB's like the Squier mini P and GSAB's at 23 to 25 inches are fun, but not as stage-ready in terms of dynamics and tone. They have a somewhat hollow sound on the low E, and the upper harmonics don't ring as true when you move up the neck.

Michael Kelly makes good affordable AGB's, but the Sojourn isn't their best. The EXPPBB170S D'Addarios it comes with are designed for conventional 30 to 32" scale ABG's, and the rated tension is 28 to 37lb from E to G at 30 inches. Higher still at 32"...

Even though the Sojourn travel bass is on the long side for a GSAB at 24.75", the tension is way too low for a solid low E with steels. Intonation and pitch accuracy will suffer, especially when you dig in.

And yes, your string options will be pretty limited, especially if you're serious about good intonation up to the 12th fret.

If you can get a chance to audition the little MK next to a Cordoba, Guild, Martin, Mitchell, or Taylor (perhaps even the $280 Ibanez PNB), you might find that you change your mind.
 
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It's important to understand that GASB's modelled after the Taylor, are actually following a long-standing tradition with the Contrabass guitar in classical guitar orchestras.

Nylon-core strings in this scale length work with very few compromises, as long as you acclimatize your attack to the lower string tension.

Steel-strung basses at Ibanez miKro scale length (28.6") are already slightly compromised in the lower octave, intonation-wise. They have the same thick, warm tones as regular short-scale basses, but don't have as much attack and punch.

Steel-strung GSEB's like the Squier mini P and GSAB's at 23 to 25 inches are fun, but not as stage-ready in terms of dynamics and tone. They have a somewhat hollow sound on the low E, and the upper harmonics don't ring as true when you move up the neck.

Michael Kelly makes good affordable AGB's, but the Sojourn isn't their best. The EXPPBB170S D'Addarios it comes with are designed for conventional 30 to 32" scale ABG's, and the rated tension is 28 to 37lb from E to G at 30 inches. Higher still at 32"...

Even though the Sojourn travel bass is on the long side for a GSAB at 24.75", the tension is way too low for a solid low E with steels. Intonation and pitch accuracy will suffer, especially when you dig in.

And yes, your string options will be pretty limited, especially if you're serious about good intonation up to the 12th fret.

If you can get a chance to audition the little MK next to a Cordoba, Guild, Martin, Mitchell, or Taylor (perhaps even the $280 Ibanez PNB), you might find that you change your mind.
Steve;
Thanks again for all that information- As much as I love the looks (and the cutaway) on the MK, I’m going to try out the mitchell and cordoba and go from there.
Appreciate your insight.
Andy
 
OK, I got the 22-24" Aquila Flat Spirals to go on my Guild Jumbo Junior 23.75" mini acoustic bass, which currently has the stock D'Addarios. I'll watch the YouTube vid on changing these strings. Anything else I have to watch out for in swapping them? E.g. will the string tension be about the same, so the neck should be OK as is? The Aquilas look to be a bit fatter than the OE strings. I'm hoping to get away with that, as the nut is cut so the OE strings sit on top of it, located sideways by the grooves, rather than being way down in channels like you sometimes see.
 
OK, I got the 22-24" Aquila Flat Spirals to go on my Guild Jumbo Junior 23.75" mini acoustic bass, which currently has the stock D'Addarios. I'll watch the YouTube vid on changing these strings. Anything else I have to watch out for in swapping them? E.g. will the string tension be about the same, so the neck should be OK as is? The Aquilas look to be a bit fatter than the OE strings. I'm hoping to get away with that, as the nut is cut so the OE strings sit on top of it, located sideways by the grooves, rather than being way down in channels like you sometimes see.

Obviously the ideal is that the lengths line up where you have the wrapped portion around the tuners, not the exposed portion.

You want to stretch and tune frequently in the beginning. Don't get discouraged. They take some time to settle, but when they settle, they are very stable. I love them. I just purchased my second set of Aquila Flat Spirals.
Would love to see a picture of the headstock after you put them on.
 
Steve;
Thanks again for all that information- As much as I love the looks (and the cutaway) on the MK, I’m going to try out the mitchell and cordoba and go from there.
Appreciate your insight.
Andy
Well I did finally purchase both the Michell and the Cordoba. The Mitchell was a little more comfortable to play due to the slightly* (about an inch in each direction, scale, body depth width and length) larger size. Same strings from what I read and felt. Mitchell had a few rattles and a tiny bit of string buzz here and there, plus the E string was noticeably louder when amped. The Cordoba sounded even, warm and full when amped and just felt like a slightly better build. I’m also a sucker for a natural finish. The mitchell went back this morning,and the little cordoba is coming home with me.
The action is a little high and I would like to explore lowering it at the bridge, however the bridge appears to be this type:
upload_2023-12-21_15-16-38.jpeg

and I’m not sure if sanding the bottom very slightly is possible. I’ve also read that there may be some paper shims under this saddle. Does anyone have experience in messing with this style of saddle.
Thanks
 
Well I did finally purchase both the Michell and the Cordoba. The Mitchell was a little more comfortable to play due to the slightly* (about an inch in each direction, scale, body depth width and length) larger size. Same strings from what I read and felt. Mitchell had a few rattles and a tiny bit of string buzz here and there, plus the E string was noticeably louder when amped. The Cordoba sounded even, warm and full when amped and just felt like a slightly better build. I’m also a sucker for a natural finish. The mitchell went back this morning,and the little cordoba is coming home with me.
The action is a little high and I would like to explore lowering it at the bridge, however the bridge appears to be this type:
View attachment 5291276
and I’m not sure if sanding the bottom very slightly is possible. I’ve also read that there may be some paper shims under this saddle. Does anyone have experience in messing with this style of saddle.
Thanks
I have that same Piezo on two HB Ukes. It is an enclosed unit. Metal channel with the piezo and plastic saddle inserted. I sanded the plastic down on the bottom and cut string channels in the top to lower the action. It is a very soft plastic. I have had trouble getting a decent string to string volume with this unit. It takes a process. Making sure the bottom of the plastic saddle is flat helps and I tried cutting the saddle into sections both with mixed results.
 
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I have that same Piezo on two HB Ukes. It is an enclosed unit. Metal channel with the piezo and plastic saddle inserted. I sanded the plastic down on the bottom and cut string channels in the top to lower the action. It is a very soft plastic. I have had trouble getting a decent string to string volume with this unit. It takes a process. Making sure the bottom of the plastic saddle is flat helps and I tried cutting the saddle into sections both with mixed results.
Thanks for that info. TBH I’ll probably just leave it as is, but good to know anyway. I was surprised that I couldn’t find much info on this type of saddle/bridge vs this type:
upload_2023-12-22_7-54-26.jpeg


In this type would there be a very thin piezo unit at the bottom of the slot that holds the saddle?
 
I haven't been under the saddle on the Cordoba mini, but it's certainly possible there are shims under there that could be removed.

You could also consider a quarter turn of the truss rod, depending on where things are now.

Finally, your perception of action will probably change once you have the Aquila Flat Spirals on. The light tension and soft feel will perhaps reduce the low action desire.

Agreed on the build. The Cordoba mini, for me, is an astounding build for the price point. I love that bass so much - that I have 2 of them. :)
 
I haven't been under the saddle on the Cordoba mini, but it's certainly possible there are shims under there that could be removed.

You could also consider a quarter turn of the truss rod, depending on where things are now.

Finally, your perception of action will probably change once you have the Aquila Flat Spirals on. The light tension and soft feel will perhaps reduce the low action desire.

Agreed on the build. The Cordoba mini, for me, is an astounding build for the price point. I love that bass so much - that I have 2 of them. :)

Ha Ha I have been following your "ardent" posts about the copper spirals - they sound quite unique!
I was thinking of them for my 30" scale BG 29 which now has what I think are chromes on it. They don't seem to be available in a medium scale though - any thoughts on cutting them?
Also for the Cordoba I'm guessing with the coppers the tension will remain similar, but just lose a bit of volume and a ton of finger noise?
 
Re: cutting - I'd say, read the whole thread. I believe Mimmo the inventor comments on that.

Re: volume - I have never paid much attention to unplugged volume of various basses and strings. They have all universally been quiet to me. I view acoustic basses not as something to conjure enough acoustic volume to keep up with other acoustic instruments, but rather, as a great option for living room practice as well as a unique alternate plugged in tone.

Re: the rest - tension will feel a bit less, while the overall string will feel softer. And yes, string noise and friction discomfort - gone. After they stretch - give it time, attention, and patience :) - they are very stable.

I eagerly await my Aquila Flat Spirals set to arrive today. To immediately be set up on Mini #2.
 
Re: cutting - I'd say, read the whole thread. I believe Mimmo the inventor comments on that.

Re: volume - I have never paid much attention to unplugged volume of various basses and strings. They have all universally been quiet to me. I view acoustic basses not as something to conjure enough acoustic volume to keep up with other acoustic instruments, but rather, as a great option for living room practice as well as a unique alternate plugged in tone.

Re: the rest - tension will feel a bit less, while the overall string will feel softer. And yes, string noise and friction discomfort - gone. After they stretch - give it time, attention, and patience :) - they are very stable.

I eagerly await my Aquila Flat Spirals set to arrive today. To immediately be set up on Mini #2.

Fair comments all, I appreciate you sharing your experience.
All the best
 
Recently purchased a cordoba mini II. FWIW, this gig bag works:
https://www.amazon.ca/Waterproof-Adjustable-Shoulder-Acoustic-Accessories/dp/B091F1RVVV

It’s not very thick but there is enough room for a bit of extra padding around the body. The tuners are, however, right up agains the sides of the thinly padded case.
Would still like to find something better.

Interesting. I have purchased this in the past, and it works perfectly:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009ZX8ZJG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

Unfortunately, it is not currently in stock. When I bought my second Cordoba, seeing that not in stock,
I bought one that looks nearly identical to yours:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09BR8VGTP/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

All 3 of these are for 36" guitars, which is what you want. The Cordoba is essentially 34.5.

That case you bought should work. Maybe you should measure it to ensure it is per the spec advertised. That should have been fine.
 
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Interesting. I have purchased this in the past, and it works perfectly:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009ZX8ZJG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

Unfortunately, it is not currently in stock. When I bought my second Cordoba, seeing that not in stock,
I bought one that looks nearly identical to yours:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09BR8VGTP/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

All 3 of these are for 36" guitars, which is what you want. The Cordoba is essentially 34.5.

That case you bought should work. Maybe you should measure it to ensure it is per the spec advertised. That should have been fine.
To be clear the one I bought does work, it’s just very minimal. Not unexpected for +/$30.
 
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