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Guitarist causing problems.

I'm noticing this is a problem with lead guitarists. I'm in a band situation with two guitarists, a drummer, a singer, and me. We've got 3 originals and a couple covers, and we're about to start some small gigs and a school Battle of the Bands.

On the one hand, my guitarist is a great guitarist with a huge knowledge of theory. He listens to a lot of classical, but his heroes are Satriani and Vai. He can pull of most of their licks, but... he's sloppy some times. We were recording a ballad type instrumental earlier, and he was playing lead. He's running through a marshal cab with Evolution pickups (used by Steve Vai to play harmonics with his tongue... that sensitive) and a boss overdrive. We couldn't even get the amp to stop buzzing when his guitar was muted. Then he was very sloppy in his playing. To be honest, the rhythm guitarist is cleaner and better, though not quite as fast.

Also, he causes conflict within the band. The four of us are rock/metal/ punk players. When alone, we play in the vein of bands like Avenged Sevenfold, Foo Fighters, Tool, etc. Drop D tuning where the guitar goes from clean licks and arpeggios to room filling chords and the bass adds a lot of depth. The singer likes to play things like My Chemical Romance, as well as what we like. So we make it work. But he's a very blues/80's inspired player. Of course this is great to have. But it's hard explaining to somebody that Joe Satriani and Himi Hendrix isn't our thing. He doesn't want to hear it. He thinks the songs we play are boring and often refuses to play them, or embellishes them and adds solos.
Him and I both like to be leaders, and not to toot my own horn, I'm much more suited to do so. I have a knack for handling people psychological (that said, I shouldn't be having this problem). My name is on the list for all the booking, the management, and everything. I set up all the sites. I do the recording. I do the mixing. I contact agents. I even do most of the tech. All he does is play and compose, both of which he does pretty well. But not for us.

All signs point to him leaving, but there are two problems. First of all, when we can concentrate his energy into our style, he does great things to fill out our style. I have a feeling our rhythm guitarist could take over, or we could bring someone else in.

The only other thing is convincing everybody else. They recognize that he's been a jerk, but they all pretty much tolerate it. I don't want to be the public enemy because of it. In addition, there's a loyalty factor. he first invited me to join the band and gave me several tries, as my mom has health issues, and I hadd to miss everyone of the original dates he gave me. He created the band to play a party once and it took off.

So TB, do I have to make the hard decision, and how do I have to handle it? What are other thoughts?
 
oniman7 said:
Then he was very sloppy in his playing.
oniman7 said:
All he does is play and compose, both of which he does pretty well. But not for us.
Ummm....

I detect a little ambivalence here. He is a sloppy player, but he also plays pretty well.

It sounds like this guitarist is a WEEDLE-WEEDLE-WEEDLE-WEEEEE fast tapping type player. I could tolerate I guy like that if he were good and not sloppy and not over do it.

Is he sloppy all the time? Does he not stay on beat? Does flub notes badly? both? I'm not sure how sloppy he is, but that seems to be the biggest problem based upon your description. The best solution for this problem is to rehearse each song a whole lot until it's tight. If that's not enough, then it's a lost cause I suppose.

I think it would be easy enough to deal with the conflicting styles. The lead guitarist can have creative control over the songs he writes and he can take direct on songs written by other members.

The buzzing sound could be reduced with equipment adjustments. I'm not sure which Boss pedal he's using, but some of them suck without modifications...usually diode and chip replacements. Buzzing or humming can be caused by numerous things: poor shielding or grouding inside the guitar, noisy pedal, cell phone nearby, noisy amp, noisy pickups, bad cables, neon lights nearby, poorly grounded outlet, etc. Is this a problem to some extent all of the time? Not just during the 'ballad' recording?

So TB, do I have to make the hard decision, and how do I have to handle it? What are other thoughts?
If you haven't lost your patience yet, then I say try to work things out to keep the lead guitarist. It sounds like there are some positive aspects to him being in the band and the other members are not dissatisfied enough to give him the boot. The jerkiness and sloppiness are the main problems here....how severe is difficult to tell from reading your post.

If you have lost your patience, then be direct. At least let the rest of the band know your thoughts on this. Maybe wait a little longer and see if the rest of the band loses patience too. Worst case scenerio: tell the band "He goes or I go".
 
Actually, his sloppyness is the least of our problems. He plays a very high gain amp, sensitive pickups, and distortion or overdrive. And if he's not using distortion or overdrive, he's using chorus for clean parts. Also in his pedal chain is whammy, wah, and delay, and I don't think I've ever heard him go 100% clean. But it's a "sloppy" high gain, lots of overtone style like you hear with a lot of blues guitarists. We could work around that.


The music and his attitude are the biggest problems. We've stopped playing several songs (Prayer of the Refugee, Fear of a Blank Planet, etc.) because the melody's too boring for him or there's not enough solo time. This is a huge problem. Also, it's very hard writing vocal lines along with his song. He uses intervals which he claims cloud the tonal center (mostly the second and the 6th), even knowing that they do. My problem, really, is that he uses up all sorts of sonic space. It's hard to write vocals to his parts specifically because he writes the melodies all over the place, and doesn't leave enough space for her. It's hard to write the parts of what's practically a whole solo, without a solid theme.

Also, he's generally a jerk. he wanted to have a band discussion (which I'm all for) but spent the first 3 hours constantly reminding us that we were going to have to talk about things, without ever actually saying anything. Then he started out by telling everybody, essentially, why they sucked. He's arrogant, argumentative, and hard to be around. This is the worst part of it. If not for this, I have a feeling we could help him work everything out.
 
There are two kinds of musicians in rock: The Jaco/Satriani types, and more seasoned, disciplined players.

The Jaco/Satriani types have mind blowing technique but are hard to work with sometimes (maybe not the actual Joe Satriani, but his "clones") but people DO work with them and they get gigs because they do something no one else can do.

Then there is the meat-and-potatos player: Maybe not a dazzling technique, but certainly what they play is always in the service of the song or the band.

My preference is to not only BE the meat-and-potatos player, but to only work with them.

I don't need the showboats in my life...and aside from other musicians in the audience..the audience really does not care that a guy can shred like that.

Go to an Yngwie Malmsteen or Satriani concert. Probably not one chick in the entire house! That says it all!

I think you are right. Get rid of him. Tell him "I'll see you sometime, maybe in the amp section of Guitar Center going "Weedle-dee-weedle-dee"!
 
Without knowing that much about your meat-and-potato guy, I can only venture a guess. Being a straightforward player doesn't always mean they can't pull off certain licks or lead solos...but they should be skilled enough to correctly follow the vocals...which is what we should all be doing anyway!

There are many instances of bands playing with only one guitarist. History is filled with them! The Who, Zep, U2..sometimes it is so much easier....as a bass player, the space provides you with much more room to move around in.

One of my favorite all time albums is a jazz album made by a singer named Julie London. It features only a guitar and an upright bass...and the band swings! It never sounds hollow or thin.

But if this is a band that absolutely requires two guitars....I still would say get rid of Mr. Satriani. That kind of "shredding" is so passe' at this point anyway. Guitard solos! Who needs 'em! Bah!!!!!

Best way to find out if the guitard can really play is to unplug his distortion and compressor....THEN let's see what he can do!

Not really knocking Satriani of course...I just don't think that style is really needed anymore..it's sooooo early 90's, you know?

For me, it has to be all about the songs. If they are good songs, you don't need all the weedle-dee-weedle-dee stuff. And I would rather have some core people in a band that are all in the same boat, on the same page, then deal with the meathead guitards that always seem to ruin every band they are in....

If you read all the horror stories in this part of the forum, you will see a recurring theme: A lack of real professionalism on the part of the guitards we are forced to work with.

I admit, I left rock music behind for mostly that reason...the show boating, the attitude, the extreme volume "because I need tone"...the lack of punctuality. Basically, every single complaint in these threads has happened to me.

So I don't need Satriani. Give me Malcolm Young and I am ready to rock! In fact, give me AC/DC's drummer while you are at it! I really don't need Dave Weckl either, bless him!

To quote the king in the movie "Amadeus", there are "Only so many notes the human ear can hear"!