Double Bass Gut Strings: Are They Worth It To Try? (part I)

[MT Spaces]

... I can pay cash AND throw in some Hillbilly Chrome Cabernet. Plus, I can deliver. And while I'm there, I'll let you take me fly fishing ....

We might have a Winner Folks . Hard cold paper money, home-brew duck tape wine, hand-delivery, fly fishing, river-running, bass comparisons, bluegrass jamming, wild-game cook-outs, off-road adventures beyond the imagination ..... Sounds Good To Me.

Wineaux .... You and your Missus really must be friggin' nut-cases .... a 4200 mile round-trip for some used Pistoys ? Hell, it might even snow up here in August . Hope to meet you soon.

 

[Mark Perna]

I have a question for those of you who bow unwound guts. Do you need to adjust the type/amount of rosin (in relation to steels or hybrids) in order to get good results?

My bowing sucks and I've stopped bowing because I don't like the way the rosin left on the strings changes the tone of the strings (it noticeably dulls the tone and gut isn't exactly overly bright to begin with). However, when I WAS bowing, I thought it a lot easier to get the sound going on gut than on Mittels and even Spiro Weichs. I used a bit less rosin but the same kind. The string itself is rougher than steel so the bow bit into the strings much more easily.

That said, I wouldn't trust a thing I say about bowing because I really do suck at it. Really Really REALLY suck. Big time. You'd have to put a gun to my head for me to bow in public and then I'd have to think about it. The experience would only be slightly less humiliating than the way David Carradine died. Suck. Really. For those of you who don't read the news, Carradine apparently accidentally asphyxiated himself while, shall we coyly say, entertaining himself. He had tied himself up while wearing a black women's wig and black fishnet stockings. As deaths go, it wasn't exactly a warrior's death. In fact, the only thing more humiliating that I could think of would be me bowing in public.

mark

 

[Mark Perna]

It is amazing how experience really clarifies some things. I took the '28 with the gut D/G and Mittel E/A out to the local Wednesday jam and it sucked. I couldn't get a reasonable sound out of the amp that was there. I hadn't gigged with it in 3 months and I discovered that the neck shape was different enough from the '74 that I really couldn't play it very well. In other words, I was tripping all over myself. With a lousy sound. To top off my humiliation, some of the best musicians in Pittsburgh showed up. I was not a happy guy last night.

And even more irritating, the fingers on my left hand were a little sore today from pressing down on those stupid Mittels. I haven't played a steel string instrument for more than 10-15 minutes since switching to gut in March. My callouses have adjusted to the thicker, softer gut strings and the thinner steels were digging into places that used to be solid. I didn't really notice it until this morning and it really isn't that bad but it is one more insult.

I really think that the '28 is going to remain a steel string bass for those rare times when I need one. Based on last night's experience, it definitely sounds better as one. In order to get this bass gut ready, I'd have to take it to a luthier and get it set up for gut. Given how good the '74 sounds with gut, I think I'm just going to let it remain a steel bass. I haven't taken the guts off of it yet but that's going to happen shortly and I'll have a mostly broken in gut G and D in reserve. I think I'm going to try the Evah Weichs on it.

I played on the '74 for an hour or so this afternoon and it was like going home. Sounded great and I could actually play it.

mark

 

[Marcus Johnson]

So it's official... gut strings cause psychosis.

 

[Marcus Johnson]

I guess I keep dropping the "gut outsider" bombs from the sideline. I have to wonder if the difference it THAT major, with a great bass and modern gut strings. I've played so many borrowed and rented basses over the years, I wonder if it even matters anymore what strings are on there. I've been able to make friends with some pretty gnarly setups over the years. More than a few have been strung with guts. I survived.

Maybe my real fear is laying out $400+ on strings and going ..."meh".... then I'd be forced to play them until I die (by Ms. Johnson).

I have, on occasion, really dug playing the low end guts on bulls*** basses that I've run into in various venues. Somehow that seems to work.

OP, PC, and Mingus must just be laughin' at us.

 

[MT Spaces]

i love this thread

Kevin Young Master ..... Thanks for starting this Deal and Thanks for trying and excelling on Guts .... I've listened to your playing .... WOOF . I will never-ever be able to do that .... That's OK with me ... I know (and like) my place (in hobby bluegrass music).

Amongst all the racket We have been making around here .... There's some Good Stuff (along with your Playing) . I'm one of the worst-offenders ... racket-wise and hi-jack-wise and playing-wise . You better jump-back-in here real-soon and tell us more about Your Journey. Damn Son .... It's Your Thread .... Don't Be Shy !!

 

[MT Spaces]

I have a question for those of you who bow unwound guts. Do you need to adjust the type/amount of rosin (in relation to steels or hybrids) in order to get good results?

Paging Mr. Adrian Cho .... I seem to remember in past threads that Adrian has had some serious arco-time on Gamuts (maybe even Pistoys I think). He had lots to say about The Subject .... A search may be in order ..... Both for his past threads and his last-sighting . Hope he's OK, Happy, Doing Well, and Making Music.

.... I wouldn't trust a thing I say about bowing because I really do suck at it. Really Really REALLY suck. Big time. You'd have to put a gun to my head for me to bow in public and then I'd have to think about it. The experience would only be slightly less humiliating than the way David Carradine died. Suck. Really. For those of you who don't read the news, Carradine apparently accidentally asphyxiated himself while, shall we coyly say, entertaining himself. He had tied himself up while wearing a black women's wig and black fishnet stockings. As deaths go, it wasn't exactly a warrior's death. In fact, the only thing more humiliating that I could think of would be me bowing in public ....

Post-Script ....

Mark ...... Yer Killin' Me Here. I know you are a damn-fine bass-player and Have Knowledge Way Beyond Me. Hell ... If you can't do this bass-stuff no-more sometime-someday .... I'd drive all-the-way-back to Pittsburg just to watch your stand-up routine . I really loved your tirade about The Ideal Double Bass Premium "Entourage" up-above in a previous post . I really hope you like the Pistoys if you ever put them on ... Otherwise I will feel terrible and slink back into my little-corner where I belong.

 

[Mark Perna]

So it's official... gut strings cause psychosis.

What was your first clue?

mark

 

[AndreasH]

OP, PC, and Mingus must just be laughin' at us.

If theyr'e laughing at us, that means that they're able to here us! Hey guys! How did you do it!? How did you produce THAT sound!? ... ... .. Oh my god, guts really causes psychosis...

 

[bonaventura]

Get in the line buddy........... gut for silk...... i can even get Bob a bottle of Swiss moonshine.....
Nuno

That's a leg up right there.

Was that a "boot-leg"?

sure took me while, but gee Toad, you made a funny!

....bwahahaha!

 

[AndreasH]

And even more irritating, the fingers on my left hand were a little sore today from pressing down on those stupid Mittels. I haven't played a steel string instrument for more than 10-15 minutes since switching to gut in March. My callouses have adjusted to the thicker, softer gut strings and the thinner steels were digging into places that used to be solid. I didn't really notice it until this morning and it really isn't that bad but it is one more insult.

Probably the first time I've seen someone mentioning "stupid" and "mittels" together Is that a reason to believe that this thread (along with Toad's "Gamut Guts" thread) marks the most gut intense period in talkbass history?

I hear you mark, steel hurts and Isn't half the fun of guts. I love my guts more and more for each day of playing going by. I've really worked on my right-hand technique to get an open, focused and full-bodied sound out of the bass (Read: "I'm trying to sound like O.P."). By placing my index vertically so that the whole pad of the finger plays the string really gives me a clear, loud sound out of the bass. It's THE sound for me and Mittel/steels is totally out of the question.

 

[Kevin Hsieh]

Kevin Young Master ..... Thanks for starting this Deal and Thanks for trying and excelling on Guts .... I've listened to your playing .... WOOF . I will never-ever be able to do that .... That's OK with me ... I know (and like) my place (in hobby bluegrass music).

Amongst all the racket We have been making around here .... There's some Good Stuff (along with your Playing) . I'm one of the worst-offenders ... racket-wise and hi-jack-wise and playing-wise . You better jump-back-in here real-soon and tell us more about Your Journey. Damn Son .... It's Your Thread .... Don't Be Shy !!

Thanks Bob . However, at the moment, I'm stuck in LA playing Evah Pirazzis on a bass I'm renting from a friend. Visiting some family since school is out and I left the baby back in New York. I do have a couple things to say though that have been stated in previous posts about the benefits of playing on gut.

After playing on the Evahs for two days, my right hand has gotten noticeably more tired. I've spent the same amount of time practicing on my bass strung with gut strings and my right hand never felt a thing. But yesterday, I started getting sore from practicing on the Evahs. Also, playing on gut has improved my right hand technique immensely. You can never really tell until going back to steel for a good period of time, but I feel like I'm getting a much stronger and prettier sound than before I made the leap.

My bass in New York is still strung with unknown gut G and D and garbo E and A. Working out splendidly, but I'd be interested in getting in the name-throwing game that you guys are doing and start seeing how the Chorda and the Gamut guts that I have sitting in closet sound on my bass. Only thing is my bass sounds and feels so great to me at the moment, I don't want to mess with something good until I have to. We'll see.

Carry on!

 

[Mark Perna]

Probably the first time I've seen someone mentioning "stupid" and "mittels" together Is that a reason to believe that this thread (along with Toad's "Gamut Guts" thread) marks the most gut intense period in talkbass history?

I hear you mark, steel hurts and Isn't half the fun of guts. I love my guts more and more for each day of playing going by. I've really worked on my right-hand technique to get an open, focused and full-bodied sound out of the bass (Read: "I'm trying to sound like O.P."). By placing my index vertically so that the whole pad of the finger plays the string really gives me a clear, loud sound out of the bass. It's THE sound for me and Mittel/steels is totally out of the question.

Don't read too much into the "stupid Mittels" comment. I was just blowing off steam. I'm going to keep (or put back on in the case of the D and G) the Mittels on the '28 for the rare times that I'd want to use a steel string bass. I occasionally get called for recording gigs that might be better on steel.

I have my own way of pulling the sound out of the gut too. I kind of hit down toward the fingerboard and then through the string. It gives me a little high end snap with a strong bloom to the note. I should specify that this works really well on my '74 but not so well on the '28 (which is one reason why it is turning back into a steel string bass). Totally in love with the guts. It would just be torture to play a jazz gig with steel strings now.

mark

 

[Mark Perna]

Thanks Bob . However, at the moment, I'm stuck in LA playing Evah Pirazzis on a bass I'm renting from a friend. Visiting some family since school is out and I left the baby back in New York. I do have a couple things to say though that have been stated in previous posts about the benefits of playing on gut.

After playing on the Evahs for two days, my right hand has gotten noticeably more tired. I've spent the same amount of time practicing on my bass strung with gut strings and my right hand never felt a thing. But yesterday, I started getting sore from practicing on the Evahs. Also, playing on gut has improved my right hand technique immensely. You can never really tell until going back to steel for a good period of time, but I feel like I'm getting a much stronger and prettier sound than before I made the leap.

My bass in New York is still strung with unknown gut G and D and garbo E and A. Working out splendidly, but I'd be interested in getting in the name-throwing game that you guys are doing and start seeing how the Chorda and the Gamut guts that I have sitting in closet sound on my bass. Only thing is my bass sounds and feels so great to me at the moment, I don't want to mess with something good until I have to. We'll see.

Carry on!

Kevin:

If you are totally digging your sound, DON'T screw with it. The unknown guts might actually be pretty high end strings. When you get back, post a picture of them and maybe we can ID them.

mark

 

[Mark Perna]

Post-Script ....

Mark ...... Yer Killin' Me Here. I know you are a damn-fine bass-player and Have Knowledge Way Beyond Me. Hell ... If you can't do this bass-stuff no-more sometime-someday .... I'd drive all-the-way-back to Pittsburg just to watch your stand-up routine . I really loved your tirade about The Ideal Double Bass Premium "Entourage" up-above in a previous post . I really hope you like the Pistoys if you ever put them on ... Otherwise I will feel terrible and slink back into my little-corner where I belong.

I don't know how I missed this. Thanks, Bob!

mark

 

[kurt]

The experience would only be slightly less humiliating than the way David Carradine died. Suck. Really. For those of you who don't read the news, Carradine apparently accidentally asphyxiated himself while, shall we coyly say, entertaining himself. He had tied himself up while wearing a black women's wig and black fishnet stockings. As deaths go, it wasn't exactly a warrior's death. In fact, the only thing more humiliating that I could think of would be me bowing in public.

I wouldn't be caught DEAD doing that! Although I suppose it's okay if you don't do it INXS!

 

[Mark Perna]

I wouldn't be caught DEAD doing that! Although I suppose it's okay if you don't do it INXS!

Boo. Hiss. (or appropriate to this board: bahh!).

 

[Mark Perna]

I guess I keep dropping the "gut outsider" bombs from the sideline. I have to wonder if the difference it THAT major, with a great bass and modern gut strings. I've played so many borrowed and rented basses over the years, I wonder if it even matters anymore what strings are on there. I've been able to make friends with some pretty gnarly setups over the years. More than a few have been strung with guts. I survived.

Maybe my real fear is laying out $400+ on strings and going ..."meh".... then I'd be forced to play them until I die (by Ms. Johnson).

I have, on occasion, really dug playing the low end guts on bulls*** basses that I've run into in various venues. Somehow that seems to work.

OP, PC, and Mingus must just be laughin' at us.

I'm going reintroduce you to my offer: buy a set of Gamuts (med G, Light D, med silver wrapped A, med silver wrapped E). That's what I use. If you don't like them, I'll buy them from you for the price you paid for them. All you gotta do is ship them to me. My guess is you're going to like them. You have nothing to fear from the wife.

mark

 

[Kevin Hsieh]

I'm going reintroduce you to my offer: buy a set of Gamuts (med G, Light D, med silver wrapped A, med silver wrapped E). That's what I use. If you don't like them, I'll buy them from you for the price you paid for them. All you gotta do is ship them to me. My guess is you're going to like them. You have nothing to fear from the wife.

mark

+1

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Kev,
My unknown G turned out to be a Gamut Lyon Medium. If you like what you have you might be surprised to find out what it is.
It took a few days to start sounding good so I won't be experimenting with it.

+1 on the right hand technique. I can get more types of sounds (and prettier) than I ever could with steel and the feel is great. Even going to Animas on the other bass is more work. I've become such a wuss......