Double Bass Gut Strings: Are They Worth It To Try? (part I)

[Marcus Johnson]

Just checked, about $517 on Quinn. By contrast, Dan Larson packages a set of Gamoots for $472. I think DDs are right around that mark as well. I know Ken had a set of the Carloseses for sale, one that he played for a few hours.

The difference doesn't matter much at those rates anyway. Them's some pricey sausages.

 

[jonster]

I did a gig many years ago where there happened to big a big old (white!) upright bass, which I used to use, rather than schlepping mine there and back every night. It had gut strings. The jazz pioneers did just fine with gut strings. For me, the novelty of it was kind of cool.

 

[AndreasH]

Marcus I think you should try the "Carlos" Chorda set. Your La Scala will just sing! It'll probably make us all cry with it's beauty!! I think as they settle in you won't even notice what you thought you might miss from the steel strings.

>

-J

Yes Marcus, give them a try! If you for some reason wouldn't like them, I would at least buy the E and A from you!

 

[Marcus Johnson]

Thanks, all, it's definitely all whirling around in my head.

I'm trying to decide when to do it. I'm doing a big thing in August, and that sound would really fit it perfectly. Because it's really high-profile, big star type thing,....I'm a little reluctant to make the leap just yet. Most likely, I'll leave things as they are, and play the Evahs. Nobody but me would notice. But I think guts would really sound good on this one. I'm thinking that Joe Comfort sound.

Then again... this guy is paying me really well for this gig...so.... maybe I'll try to sneak it past the bookkeeper.... er, Mrs. Johnson.

PS... the Evah G is giving me a bit of a zzzing on some notes, that I'm not liking. It's controllable, but it's in my mind now when I'm playing, as it was with Spiros. This is what's making me think about the next thang. Maybe I'll turn into Gut Boy yet. I think that could happen. I just like the whole thing to sound like a bass.

 

[AndreasH]

If you get them soon, they'll sound great in August!

I don't think you have to worry if you want to get rid of them if you wouldn't like them. If you get Carlos Chordas, I think people around here are pretty curious about them, me being one of them!

 

[Uncletoad]

Marcus Johnson.

The dark lord has now taken him. He sinks into the abyss as we speak.

Get those strings now and get to it while you still have breath.

We with Spirocores and twinkie tones stand on the precipice with green tea and vegan comfort food prepared to nurse you back to health if need be or cheer you on to join the ranks of the Gut breathern who have conquered the beast and lived to love it.

Sadly, I am to weak. To beaten by the simple pitfalls to rise above and groove with the gut people. Joe Comfort, PC, RC, Scotty and old Ray still haunt me...yet I am not man enough.

Venture forth...ride,....ride,....ride Marcus.

It is your destiny.

 

[Mark Perna]

That just might the best post I've ever read. Nicely done 'toad.

Marcus: If the BIG gig is in August, you have all of July to get inside the guts. Do it. Do it. Do it. Jump. Jump. Jump. Ju...

mark

 

[Marcus Johnson]

Marcus Johnson.

The dark lord has now taken him. He sinks into the abyss as we speak.

Get those strings now and get to it while you still have breath.

We with Spirocores and twinkie tones stand on the precipice with green tea and vegan comfort food prepared to nurse you back to health if need be or cheer you on to join the ranks of the Gut breathern who have conquered the beast and lived to love it.

Sadly, I am to weak. To beaten by the simple pitfalls to rise above and groove with the gut people. Joe Comfort, PC, RC, Scotty and old Ray still haunt me...yet I am not man enough.

Venture forth...ride,....ride,....ride Marcus.

It is your destiny.

Damn. That gave me a boner.

 

[Uncletoad]

Damn. That gave me a boner.

Think I missed my mark. I was shooting for a chuckle.

 

[jrlynch]

well, i chuckled.

 

[Bobby King]

I recently saw Dave Roe play in Nashville. Dave is a great bass player, definitely a "gut guy". He was playing amplified with a country/swing/honky-tonk band. His sound was fantastic, you could hear every note full and fat, regardless of whether he was slapping, walking, soloing, etc. One of the best live gut sounds that I've heard. I asked him about his gear, he said he uses Lemur's "European Gut" for his G&D, and Sensicore Perlon-core A&E because they are flatwound and don't chew up his fingerboard. (this is hardly what you'd call a premium gut set up) He swore by his Barbera bridge, but he was just using some nondescript Peavey amp.

This confirms some of my experiences with using gut. In an amplified situation, much of the benefits of premium gut strings are lost. The gut sound can be achieved using a variety of different strings, including many strings that have no actual gut content at all. I'm beginning to doubt the wisdom of spending tons of $$ on fancy guts, unless you have the type of instrument, and play in environments where the difference is truly noticable.

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

........ I'm beginning to doubt the wisdom of spending tons of $$ on fancy guts, unless you have the type of instrument, and play in environments where the difference is truly noticable.

The understatement of the year! $500 for a set of strings can be a real gamble for sure.

In my experience, different strings can somewhat change the character of a particular bass, but it will still sound like the same bass. $500 strings on a $1000 bass won't fool anyone into thinking it is a $10,000 bass. Strings are only part of the equation. Amps too. It all starts at the bass.

 

[Bobby King]

The understatement of the year! $500 for a set of strings can be a real gamble for sure.

In my experience, different strings can somewhat change the character of a particular bass, but it will still sound like the same bass. $500 strings on a $1000 bass won't fool anyone into thinking it is a $10,000 bass. Strings are only part of the equation. Amps too. It all starts at the bass.

And even more so, it all starts with the bass player. The sound that you hear and are going for can be achieved on different strings. Some players can sound "gut like" on Spirocores, and some can get a sustaining, singing sound on gut.

 

[Mark Perna]

It would be nice to spend less $ on strings but I doubt in my case that it would be worth it. While I'm amplified for most gigs, the amplification is mostly to reinforce the acoustic sound of the bass (which is a pretty good bass) not supplant it. I use a pickup to bring the overall level up for presence and an AMT microphone centered between the G and D string at the bridge to bring out the clarity of the G and D for soloing.

There is something to most people in an audience wouldn't be able tell if you're using good strings or not. But I would be able to tell and it would affect my playing (not in a good way).

mark

 

[goodgig]

Here is a follow up from another thread that I posted. I'm a newbe to gut strings. My luthier gave me used plain gut strings - G and D - for the asking. I had on Corelli M's for the past year, Bel Cantos before that. Here are my first impressions. I put these strings and Spiro M's on with my setup "as is" about 6-7 mm on both G & D. I presently have a fixed bridge on the bass. The G is plain gut and the D has purple with gold in the middle. Not sure what the are. Please nlighten me if the D is identifiable. This new setup wins hands down for pizz. I enjoy the feel of the thicker strings. The sound is more percussive than metal strings. The arco will take some additional time to work out. Gone is the quasi-cello tone that I enjoyed with the Corellis. But the bass isn't a cello. The bass played arco on gut strings sounds great to my ear. I can lose the nasally sound by changind bow placement. The G sings in thumb position. One negative, (which may turn out to be a positive) is that each string has its own considerations. The D (varnished) plays softer than the G and Spiros using same bow speed and weight.

 

[Kevin Hsieh]

The G is plain gut and the D has purple with gold in the middle. Not sure what the are. Please nlighten me if the D is identifiable. This new setup wins hands down for pizz. I enjoy the feel of the thicker strings. One negative, (which may turn out to be a positive) is that each string has its own considerations. The D (varnished) plays softer than the G and Spiros using same bow speed and weight.

Glad you're enjoying it. I'm noticing the same thing with my setup. Bowing the G is completely different from bowing my D. I'm currently practicing on a ply bass with Evahs so it's quite a change (the Evahs are very bowable). I like the arco sound of the gut quite a bit more though.

Please post a picture of that D. You got my attention

Thanks, all, it's definitely all whirling around in my head.

I'm trying to decide when to do it. I'm doing a big thing in August, and that sound would really fit it perfectly. Because it's really high-profile, big star type thing,....I'm a little reluctant to make the leap just yet. Most likely, I'll leave things as they are, and play the Evahs. Nobody but me would notice. But I think guts would really sound good on this one. I'm thinking that Joe Comfort sound.

Then again... this guy is paying me really well for this gig...so.... maybe I'll try to sneak it past the bookkeeper.... er, Mrs. Johnson.

PS... the Evah G is giving me a bit of a zzzing on some notes, that I'm not liking. It's controllable, but it's in my mind now when I'm playing, as it was with Spiros. This is what's making me think about the next thang. Maybe I'll turn into Gut Boy yet. I think that could happen. I just like the whole thing to sound like a bass.

Go for it Mark. I'm hoping to rack up a pretty nice collection of used guts. Count me in on helping you out if this endeavor goes awry.

 

[Marcus Johnson]

Go for it Mark. I'm hoping to rack up a pretty nice collection of used guts. Count me in on helping you out if this endeavor goes awry.

Yeah, it's becoming apparent to me that it's not too difficult to find new owners for used guts.

Regarding amplification... I play quite a few unamplified, or lightly amplified gigs. They're either smaller rooms, or big halls, when I use a mic and the house (no pickup; the Maui Arts & Cultural Center, for example).These are the situations where I hope to reap the benefits of a gut setup. The traditional pickup/amp thing really comes into play in clubs, medium sized rooms with some crowd noise. My pickup has worked well with all the strings I've had on this bass, including Animas, so I think I'll be okay. I still have my AMT mic as well.

There's a fundamental change in the way I'm hearing how the bass should sound. Like a lot of fifty-something bassists, I went through a period of playing that was influenced by the early Patitucci, Gomez, Marc Johnson, kind of sound. While I really admire all those guys, it's not how I'm hearing the bass for myself anymore. When I'm listening to my Sirius radio at home, it's the earlier recordings that are really catching my ear now. When more modern, sustaining, "giant fretless" type of bass sounds show up in the programming, it just sounds a little weird to me now. Someone here said it.... (maybe I even said it)... the guts sound more like they're supporting everything from the bottom up than some of the other strings do. That's kind of what I'm hearing.

I'm not even really playing the same way physically anymore... I'm doing a lot more one finger pizz, playing about half as many notes as I used to, hopefully notes that carry more meaning. When I listen to recordings I did even ten years ago.... well, I don't hate them, but it just doesn't sound like I was always making the best musical choices. Just too much sometimes, because I could physically do it. Now, it's more about a big acoustic sound, and wise choices. I try to solo fewer times (if I can steer the bandleader in that direction), and have the solos I do play mean something.

In no way am I unhappy with my sound on the Evahs. It's just one thing that I've wanted to try out for awhile. I've played a bunch of the low-to-medium end of the gut spectrum; my feeling is, if I'm going to do it, I'm going to try the other end on my own bass. I play enough night after night that I can justify the expense.

 

[Kevin Hsieh]

Yeah, it's becoming apparent to me that it's not too difficult to find new owners for used guts.

Regarding amplification... I play quite a few unamplified, or lightly amplified gigs. They're either smaller rooms, or big halls, when I use a mic and the house (no pickup; the Maui Arts & Cultural Center, for example).These are the situations where I hope to reap the benefits of a gut setup. The traditional pickup/amp thing really comes into play in clubs, medium sized rooms with some crowd noise. My pickup has worked well with all the strings I've had on this bass, including Animas, so I think I'll be okay. I still have my AMT mic as well.

There's a fundamental change in the way I'm hearing how the bass should sound. Like a lot of fifty-something bassists, I went through a period of playing that was influenced by the early Patitucci, Gomez, Marc Johnson, kind of sound. While I really admire all those guys, it's not how I'm hearing the bass for myself anymore. When I'm listening to my Sirius radio at home, it's the earlier recordings that are really catching my ear now. When more modern, sustaining, "giant fretless" type of bass sounds show up in the programming, it just sounds a little weird to me now. Someone here said it.... (maybe I even said it)... the guts sound more like they're supporting everything from the bottom up than some of the other strings do. That's kind of what I'm hearing.

I'm not even really playing the same way physically anymore... I'm doing a lot more one finger pizz, playing about half as many notes as I used to, hopefully notes that carry more meaning. When I listen to recordings I did even ten years ago.... well, I don't hate them, but it just doesn't sound like I was always making the best musical choices. Just too much sometimes, because I could physically do it. Now, it's more about a big acoustic sound, and wise choices. I try to solo fewer times (if I can steer the bandleader in that direction), and have the solos I do play mean something.

In no way am I unhappy with my sound on the Evahs. It's just one thing that I've wanted to try out for awhile. I've played a bunch of the low-to-medium end of the gut spectrum; my feeling is, if I'm going to do it, I'm going to try the other end on my own bass. I play enough night after night that I can justify the expense.

You sound like a perfect candidate for our... cult

 

[Mark Perna]

You sound like a perfect candidate for our... cult

"Won't you sign in, stranger?"

 

[Scott McC]

Yeah, it's becoming apparent to me that it's not too difficult to find new owners for used guts.

Regarding amplification... I play quite a few unamplified, or lightly amplified gigs. They're either smaller rooms, or big halls, when I use a mic and the house (no pickup; the Maui Arts & Cultural Center, for example).These are the situations where I hope to reap the benefits of a gut setup. The traditional pickup/amp thing really comes into play in clubs, medium sized rooms with some crowd noise. My pickup has worked well with all the strings I've had on this bass, including Animas, so I think I'll be okay. I still have my AMT mic as well.

There's a fundamental change in the way I'm hearing how the bass should sound. Like a lot of fifty-something bassists, I went through a period of playing that was influenced by the early Patitucci, Gomez, Marc Johnson, kind of sound. While I really admire all those guys, it's not how I'm hearing the bass for myself anymore. When I'm listening to my Sirius radio at home, it's the earlier recordings that are really catching my ear now. When more modern, sustaining, "giant fretless" type of bass sounds show up in the programming, it just sounds a little weird to me now. Someone here said it.... (maybe I even said it)... the guts sound more like they're supporting everything from the bottom up than some of the other strings do. That's kind of what I'm hearing.

I'm not even really playing the same way physically anymore... I'm doing a lot more one finger pizz, playing about half as many notes as I used to, hopefully notes that carry more meaning. When I listen to recordings I did even ten years ago.... well, I don't hate them, but it just doesn't sound like I was always making the best musical choices. Just too much sometimes, because I could physically do it. Now, it's more about a big acoustic sound, and wise choices. I try to solo fewer times (if I can steer the bandleader in that direction), and have the solos I do play mean something.

In no way am I unhappy with my sound on the Evahs. It's just one thing that I've wanted to try out for awhile. I've played a bunch of the low-to-medium end of the gut spectrum; my feeling is, if I'm going to do it, I'm going to try the other end on my own bass. I play enough night after night that I can justify the expense.

I find it interesting that the "ampy" sound is still considered modern. In reality, many of the well known bassists are going for a more old school sound, using synthetics or guts. Patitucci sometimes uses olives, Grenadier will use an olive G, Chris Wood is all olive, Matt Brewer, etc etc. Granted olives are not plain gut, but I still see it as a return to that old school sound.