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Double Bass Gut Strings: Are They Worth It To Try? (part I)
- Thread starter Kevin Hsieh
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thanks Mark. looking forward to your progris reports.
i've had Lyon mediums on for nearly 10 months now. very mellowed now. new Lyon G and D mediums changed as they broke in over the first weeks. a bit twacky and thuddy at first, especially the D. i'd imagine the Pistoys will go through the same settling in. in contrast to what you say about Pistoys, the Lyons were not what I would have described as "focused". i love their sound now, but it's a world away from say Spirocores.
btw, are those Pistoy lights or mediums you've got there?
also, i had a discussion with Dan Larson comparing the Pistoys and Lyons, and he said the Pistoys were less mid-range, more fundamental. does that match up with your impressions?
cheers, Bill
This is bad. Really bad
Bob, are you going to sell those pistoys soon? 
Marcus, I'm glad to hear you're finally going to join us in hell... I'm expecting some gut-action around here in a near future!
I have a medium G and light D just like with the Lyons.
My impressions are the Pistoys have MORE mid range right now but they are brand new so it's hard to tell where they'll be in a week or two. He's probably referring to the "bloom" around the note--there is definitely less bloom around notes with the Pistoys (anyone who plays on gut strings should know what I mean by "bloom"). The bloom is primarily mid range information (which gets mostly masked when playing with other instruments--which is why you hear the fundamental so well). The Pistoys, while still sounding like gut strings, have a somewhat simpler more direct sound. When you listen to Scott LaFaro from the Evans' At the Vanguard albums, he is clearly using gut strings but they are very direct sounding compared to other guys of that era such as Paul Chambers; each note is more defined and has little less of the gut poofiness (for lack of a better word). So far it's a little easier to get closer to that LaFaro sound with the Pistoys. Since I totally COVET LaFaro's sound and would give up ANY pretense of originality in a HEARTBEAT if I could sound like him, this might be a promising development. First gig with these babies is tomorrow so that will be the real test.
The other observation is that the Pistoy D is a more useable for melodic playing. Some folks have said that their D got muddy above 5th position. I didn't have that problem with the Lyon D. It was useable all the way up the neck into high thumb position for me but the timbre of the string was different enough from the other strings (read: a little darker and thumpier) that if I were playing a melody, I'd preferentially use the G string wherever possible. The Pistoy D's timbre sounds much more like the G so I can play melodies pretty much like I would with steel strings; across all of the strings instead of up and down the G. Again, that's with just hours of playing on the strings. I don't know how it will shake out in the coming weeks. The Lyon D, though, started very thumpy and thinned out substantially as the string stretched out and the Pistoy D started sounding great out of the package.
More later...
mark
Same here! After you contacted me a couple of days ago, my jaw was hanging.... now, it's on the floor.
Cool bunch we have here.
Whatever works!
Tell her there's no substitute for the tumbling fruit of your love's cornucopia.
Better make some room there for another bass....guts are going to change your life.
Jake deVilliers
Commercial User
- May 24, 2006
- 6,349
- 607
- Disclosures
- Owner of The Bass Spa, String Repairman at Long & McQuade Vancouver
No kidding. In addition to an act of kindness by one member I that I sort of promised not to mention any specifics of, I've been sent stuff to try by several people just for the sake of the brotherhood. On one occasion, Adrian Juras sent me a Dominant D, which was my first taste of that string. I still use three Dominants on my main bass because of Adrian's thoughtfulness.
Enjoy your descent into string heaven/hell. In a few months you and TROIKA will be sitting in a SA meeting having a laugh about this as you compare keychains.
Jake deVilliers
Commercial User
- May 24, 2006
- 6,349
- 607
- Disclosures
- Owner of The Bass Spa, String Repairman at Long & McQuade Vancouver
Maybe you have already told us, but is there any difference in tension/flexibilitiy between Lyon and Pistoy?
Darn, now I really want to try a Pistoy D... Bob? Can you hear me?
Maybe you have already told us, but is there any difference in tension/flexibilitiy between Lyon and Pistoy?
I DIDN'T tell you and I should have. Pistoys feel stiffer and less flexible than Lyons. They aren't any harder to play than Lyons though so the tension probably isn't that much different if at all. They respond faster and require less motion to get them going. In many ways, comparing Pistoys to Lyons are like comparing Dominants to Mittels. Stiffer, less motion to get going, slightly different sound characteristics.
The only impediment that I've found so far, and it is minor one that requires a mere modest adjustment of left hand technique, is their surface is not smooth like Lyons so it is a little harder to slide up and down the neck on them without sticking.
BIG CAVEAT: My first gig with these things is in about 2 and half hours so EVERYTHING I've said over the past couple of days may change drastically. I'll report back tonight.
mark
I haven't read it in a while, but in the Gamut Guts thread, I think that someone spoke to Dan Larson about the differences between the two. If I remember this right, the person who asked Dan was told that Pistoy was more flexible and that he recommended Lyon for jazz pizz because of the stiffness. I could remember it all wrong. Does this ring a bell for someone?
The qualities you are describing sounds absolutely amazing for a gut D, making me frustrated that my wallet is so thin at the moment
Maybe the new trend will be Pistoy D, Lyon G...Man, this is so exciting. I'm looking forward to your post-gig report! Good luck!
Damn Right ..... I would hang a chad for Kevin anytime .... He's a Good Kid and can really play some bass
!!I like really like that phrase Mister PC .... You know some Good Stuff. That one really tickles me. I've been scammed by Good Guts myself. Trust Me ..... I have paid plenty-o-green on two plywood-basses-worth of strings ..... And I have no regrets.... "The Green End of a Reasonable Scam".....
.Well Andreas ..... I just might .... Only If ...... That Damn Jake would send all the "dead" parts offen my Epiphone and Kay basses back to me real-soonThis is bad. Really bad
. I'm definitely keeping the Pistoys G & D and Anima A & E on the Epi but since the Kay is going to Innov Honeys ..... I might have to sell the Pistoys G/D/A from the Kay to buy grocerys next month. However .... Remember Andreas ..... I will be ignoring any PM's from you 
.AND ..... To Sir Calivox
..... Your writings about the lyons vs. pistoys are so elegant and right-on that I believe your String Memoirs should be placed in The Library Of Congress for future bass-players .... Along with your Best Jokes. All I Got To Say Is ....... "Bloom" is over-rated on guts when the second choice is "Intonation". That's why I like Pistoys so-far.Well Andreas ..... I just might .... Only If ...... That Damn Jake would send all the "dead" parts offen my Epiphone and Kay basses back to me real-soon
Right. So let's forget about that and I'll buy your D-string
C'mon! Just one string won't hurt me...
Maybe Pal .... Does that "Swedish moonshine, meatballs, and lingonberry jam" barter-offer still standRight. So let's forget about that and I'll buy your D-string
? You really need to correct that "just one string won't hurt me" Delusion though ..... It will lead you into Hell. In Montana we have an Ad Campaign. "Meth .... Not Even Once".Maybe Pal .... Does that "Swedish moonshine, meatballs, and lingonberry jam" barter-offer still stand
Sure thing Bob! If you wait a coulpe of months I can even get you a jar of genuine homemade lingonberry jam directly from the Swedish woods
Lead me into Hell? I passed Hell long ago so there's no turning back for me. And if that ".... Not Even Once" ad goes for gut, where a bunch of junkies all of us (like that's something new )
Link Removed
i figured i upload a recording that i just did last week. after experimenting with around 5 or 6 different types and gauges of strings and a quick soundpost tweak the week before, i've finally been able to get a recorded bass sound that i'm actually happy with. Unknown guts and Velvet Garbos
the track is "Triplin Awhile" a great blues by Harold Land.
check it out
i figured i upload a recording that i just did last week. after experimenting with around 5 or 6 different types and gauges of strings and a quick soundpost tweak the week before, i've finally been able to get a recorded bass sound that i'm actually happy with. Unknown guts and Velvet Garbos
the track is "Triplin Awhile" a great blues by Harold Land.
check it out
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