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Double Bass Gut Strings: Are They Worth It To Try? (part I)

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#981
So I'm well past the "experiment" stage with the Gamut Lyons. I've pretty much made the leap, and I don't see going back any time soon. The Kool-Aid tastes good. :cool: If anything, I'll move forward and go full guts (or maybe Animas on the bottom) next time. My beloved Evahs are holding down the bottom admirably, but I do need to work them a little harder to get the balance I need.

I keep marveling at how much I like the arco response of these strings. I really wasn't expecting that, and I still need to spend more time on them to pursue their possibilities. I'm probably still a little afraid of them with the bow... but that's true of any string! :atoz: They have a beautiful sonority that is hard to describe. It's really been a pleasant surprise.

Which leads to amplification.... using the pickup only (K&K) brings out a lot of the buzzy, nasal characteristics of the guts when bowing on my bass. It's worth mentioning that I'm not using a preamp at the moment, so it's mostly my own fault. Francis' little preamp would probably fix it.

But I also get the sense that a good mic is really the way to get the real character of these strings. It's not that they don't amplify well... it's more like the pickup can't really do them justice. I have the AMT just sitting around, I should give it a go.

Anyway... I'm part of the gut club, and I'll figure it out.
 
#982
Marcus Johnson said:
I'll move forward and go full guts (or maybe Animas on the bottom) next time.
Click to expand...

I have Gamut D and G since a couple of months. I didn't want to post any comment until I was sure that it's not just another «Kick». I am very pleased and I do not want to change for anything. I love the sound, the feel, the low tension... I just installed the E and A Gamut roundwound on gut. Wow, I understand the full gut comments now, I had Eudoxa E and A before, they were OK but the Gamut are wonderful.

Francois
 
#983
Marcus Johnson said:
Which leads to amplification.... using the pickup only (K&K) brings out a lot of the buzzy, nasal characteristics of the guts when bowing on my bass. It's worth mentioning that I'm not using a preamp at the moment, so it's mostly my own fault. Francis' little preamp would probably fix it.

But I also get the sense that a good mic is really the way to get the real character of these strings. It's not that they don't amplify well... it's more like the pickup can't really do them justice. I have the AMT just sitting around, I should give it a go.

Anyway... I'm part of the gut club, and I'll figure it out.
Click to expand...

I used the AMT when I had steel on but I haven't had any luck with it with guts (go figure) on the '28. I've been running both a BP 100 which sounds great in dark rooms by itself and a Schertler Stat-B which sounds great all by itself in really bright rooms. I've been mixing the two of them in in-between rooms and have been quite happy with the results. I usually favor the BP-100 and dial in the Stat as needed to add body to the sound. Despite it's reputation, the BP-100 sounds fantastic on this bass. The mixture of the pickups really sounds natural but with some clarity to the sound.

I finally settled on The Realist on the '74 and it sounds great all by itself. I tried the BP-100 (didn't work at all), Stat B (which is still on the bass and I sometimes dial a little of it into the sound), PlanetWing (sounded ok but nothing special--a little piezo-y maybe), AMT mic (sounded ok as well but nothing special either) and an Underwood (didn't really work very well). The Realist (which doesn't work at all on my '28) works really well on this bass. I've been pretty lucky in that I can get some volume out of it before feedback as well.

Amplifying any bass is an adventure in patience and money and most of the lessons you learn with one bass don't necessarily transfer to another bass.

mark
 
#984
bassbuddie said:
I have Gamut D and G since a couple of months. I didn't want to post any comment until I was sure that it's not just another «Kick». I am very pleased and I do not want to change for anything. I love the sound, the feel, the low tension... I just installed the E and A Gamut roundwound on gut. Wow, I understand the full gut comments now, I had Eudoxa E and A before, they were OK but the Gamut are wonderful.

Francois
Click to expand...

Yeah... I think I'll do it next time. Just based on the gamut tops.
 
#985
calivox said:
I used the AMT when I had steel on but I haven't had any luck with it with guts (go figure) on the '28. I've been running both a BP 100 which sounds great in dark rooms by itself and a Schertler Stat-B which sounds great all by itself in really bright rooms. I've been mixing the two of them in in-between rooms and have been quite happy with the results. I usually favor the BP-100 and dial in the Stat as needed to add body to the sound. Despite it's reputation, the BP-100 sounds fantastic on this bass. The mixture of the pickups really sounds natural but with some clarity to the sound.

I finally settled on The Realist on the '74 and it sounds great all by itself. I tried the BP-100 (didn't work at all), Stat B (which is still on the bass and I sometimes dial a little of it into the sound), PlanetWing (sounded ok but nothing special--a little piezo-y maybe), AMT mic (sounded ok as well but nothing special either) and an Underwood (didn't really work very well). The Realist (which doesn't work at all on my '28) works really well on this bass. I've been pretty lucky in that I can get some volume out of it before feedback as well.

Amplifying any bass is an adventure in patience and money and most of the lessons you learn with one bass don't necessarily transfer to another bass.

mark
Click to expand...

I had a realist, great arco but too dark pizz through the AI Contra. It just fell apart and I never got back to it. It's toast. But I bet it would be a good match with the guts.

The AMT works great in some situations, others not so good. Big halls are the best, straight in. Iffy.
 
#986
The problem I have with the Realist on the '28 is it doesn't fit the top and bridge foot very well. There is an immediate loss of bottom to the acoustic sound and the amplified sound is a bit anemic. On the '74 with gut it sounds really good. Good fit, good sound. Much more natural than any other pickup I tried. I didn't have a problem on this bass with the sound being dark.

Once again proving that there aren't any rules; you just have to try stuff until it works and what works on one doesn't necessarily work on another.

mark
 
#987
I actually have thought of going the route of mic on floor stand... maybe springing for a Heil or something... I think I could do most of my gigs that way. Tonight, at the Four Seasons, I won't even bother with a pickup. And the gigs in the big halls are always mic only.

Oddly enough, the NS Bass Cello liberates me to do DB gigs the way god intended them. It actually sounds more "acoustic" to my ears than a lot of DBs with pups mounted on them.
 
#988
I've used an RE 20 that way. Ran it through the Schertler pre-amp and boy did it sound great. Feedback from the amp was a major problem at anything over very low volume though. If I had access to a PA, it would be a great solution. Unfortunately, I don't play that many gigs through a PA.

mark
 
#989
BP article on Scott LaFaro mentions that he used Golden Spiral strings on the Prescott Bass.

"LaFaro's bass was not a typical Prescott. It was small and built for speed, with a warm tone defined by LaFaro's Golden Spiral gut strings."
 
#991
From Jade Visions p. 236

"Samuel Kolstein was further challenged with a new concept in setup for this bass, allowing Scott to accurately play the Prescott with his gut string setup of Golden Spiral gut bass strings at an unprecedentedly low string height. The success of this restoration can be attested to by the quality of sound produced on Scott's most acclaimed recording "Live at the Village Vangaurd"

Some how I've missed the mention of the Thomastik E on Scott's bass. That would of had to be the Superflex E, I don't think the Spiro's had been introduced yet. I could be wrong, of course.

I've been using a mix of Gotz G, Oliv D, wound Gotz A, and Mittel Spiro E.
 
#992
MR PC said:
BP article on Scott LaFaro mentions that he used Golden Spiral strings on the Prescott Bass.

"LaFaro's bass was not a typical Prescott. It was small and built for speed, with a warm tone defined by LaFaro's Golden Spiral gut strings."
Click to expand...
Man. I wouldn't have guessed that. I thought he was using all gut.
 
#993
The only mention in the Jade Visions book of the Thomastik E is in the brief quote from Herb Mickman. I have not seen a secondary source for this and although I've studied various pictures of LaFaro's Prescott, I can't tell if the E is steel or not. He certainly got a very growly tone out of the E but I got a pretty growly sound out of a Gamut E. I'm leery of declaring it a fact until another source can be found. Who knows how good Herb's memory is.

If he did use a steel E, he didn't start using it until '61. You can clearly tell that the older recordings are all gut. The E, post-Kolstein modification, is really growly on the Vanguard recordings and I can't tell if it is gut or not. It could just be the result of Kolstein's work or it could be steel.

Anybody know if the Golden Spirals from the '50s and '60's are the same as the Kaplan (via D'Addario) Golden Spirals that I tried in the '90's? Tynex wrapped gut?

mark
 
#996
Well......we weren't all part of that discussion. This is something new. TB is a big place with lots of members after all. Maybe some new info could be brought too light here.

Other than the fact that Golden Spirals are mentioned, I don't see a whole lot of similarity between your linked thread and this one.:)

EDIT, muse: To answer the OP's question, Gut strings ARE worth a try when you consider all the things that Scott LaFaro accomplished with them!
 
#997
#998
MR PC said:
]

EDIT, muse: To answer the OP's question, Gut strings ARE worth a try when you consider all the things that Scott LaFaro accomplished with them!
Click to expand...

I'm using gut now because of this thread. I was perfectly content playing Spiro Mittels after trying 57 different strings until Kevin had to go and start this thread. I'd say, "damn him!" except it was the best move I've ever made. 10 months later, I'm one of the converted.

mark
 
#1,000
I had a chance to grab a couple LaBella guts lately for cheap, a D&G string. I had always used Lenzners mostly, and have some beautiful Red o Rays and Artones tucked away for a rainy day or recording (great, great strings).

Anway, I actually like the LaBella D&G quite a bit. The main thing I like about them is that they are heavier gauge, higher tension feel. They are a little thumpier, maybe shorter "sustain" than the Lenzner.

For the Roots music I play, they match up well with my Olive E&A. I slap a hell of a lot nowdays too and they sound great for that. Short sustain and thump works for amplified slap bass and I am able to get that old-school woody slap tone I dig.

It would be cool if the Lenzners and other "garden variety" guts were offered in different gauges. I believe the old-school guts back in the day often gave you a choice of gauges. My NOS guts have different diameters written on the packages.
 
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