• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Double Bass Guts and Amplification

#21
Groove Doctor said:
The Ampeg B15 was designed for DB originally. The B100R has a few sneaky features to cop that sound:
- a 15" but in an undersized/heavy cab. Lows are controlled & nicely balance with mids... the classic 80-800Hz B15 'fullness' that sits well in a mix.
- progressive bass roll-off/HPF past 5(?) as the input is turned up. Boost input signal to avoid this.
- high freq roll off @8kHz (?) giving a warmer tone, less piezo quack.
- no tweeter so Treble boost switch doesn't sound shrill.


Ever tried a Sansamp pre/DI?
- Blend in 25-50% amp sim for a thicker/fuller tone on loud gigs,
- use as a boost to get more volume out of your B100R.
- Gives a similar sound to blending in a mag PU with steels, which isn't an option with guts.
- ParaDriver's sweepable mid freq is very handy too.
- might not be the puritan option, but at 100dB might be exactly what you need to be heard.


Ever tried a kids plastic toboggan to slide it over snow??
Click to expand...

I was using a sansamp a while back, but into a different amp. I used it a lot when I still played slab. Have nothing but good things to say about it. I'm a little surprised when I hear people say they couldn't find a good sound with it, but to each their own. I've never had the PARA version.

I haven't tried it with upright into the B100R. The Radial I'm using has every feature you need, sounds good, and the DI sounds much better through the PA to my ears than the sansamp did. If I didn't need an amp for stage monitoring, I would probably just run my bass through the PA using the Radial.

I wish the B100R weighed about 20lbs less.
 
#22
have you ever tried an fDeck?

i thought i liked the sound of my bass until i ran it through an fdeck.....100X better! i dont know how francis did it but, it gives a much more natural sound. wish he would make something like the radial as far as options go but using his components.

i've played gigs on bigger stages where i didn't have my amp and they ran me direct. all i had was my fdeck inbetween my bass and basic PA monitors. usually this equals a terrible stage sound, hence why i like to have my amp on stage instead. i couldn't believeit - it sounded almost like my amp did.

try one.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gaolee
#24
Jay Corwin said:
the Ampeg.... does color the tone, but in that B15'ish way which ain't so bad. The down side of the Ampeg is weight. At 65 pounds, it's a bit of bear for me to move.

I'm looking next year to try something lighter, and with more power. Originally I was thinking powered speaker, but I'm also intrigued by the Fearless cabs as I see tons of upright players using them on Facebook.
Click to expand...
It seems you like a B15-like coloured sound. Just not the weight. I've checked out B15 threads on EB side for many years. Closest things are B100R, the VT preamp/amps, and REDDI DI.

Just to clarify, you will lose the B15 tone with a more HiFi rig .... unless you add amp/speaker emulation. Adding a Sansamp to a HiFi rig will get you back towards that B15 tone. (Maybe put it in FX loop of Radial?).

VTDI has extra features, just no mid-freq.
Invalid Link Removed

REDDI is heavy but sounds magical.
 
Last edited:
#25
I would say that the B15 sound is palatable, and certainly works with most bands I'd play with. However I wouldn't say that the sound I'm going for. Like most guys I'd love to reproduce the acoustic tone of the instrument as much as possible. My comments about the b15'ish sound were that while it's a compromise in upright tone reproduction, it is still a good usable tone by most standards. The issues I have with the B100R are weight and headroom.

When I first started gigging upright, I was playing a Genz Benz rig which I would consider Hifi. Great, great rig. Wish that I would have kept it, because now that I have a good bass and pickup it would be nice to experiment with again.

But back on topic: the intentions of my initial post were just to see what gut players are using for amplification, and what if anything people were doing differently as compared to modern jazz/steel string players.
 
#26
Innovations (gut-like) -> Underwood -> FDeck -> GB6.0 or Thunderfunk or Mesa WalkAbout-> BaerML112 or BergCN212.

The Fishmann Plat Pro is in gig bag for emergency only and Sansamp ParaDriver for DB occasionally to get a meaty tone or gritty sound on DB, esp louder songs.

Works for both Jazz and Rockabilly quite well with right rig combinations and proper EQing.
 
Last edited:
#27
Full set Gamut Pistoy (naked gut) -> Erhlund Pickup -> Erhlund Pre -> AI Focus 2R series III into a MAS 25.5

This setup gets all of the things that i like about caracteristics of gut-strings through the rig. The percussive attack, the decay of the note, and the dynamic range.

If there is FOH i will use a DPA 4099 and if it is provided a RE20. I avoid sending a Line-signal or direct out to the house.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Povl Carstensen, DB Slidefunk and Jay Corwin
#28
Been using Gut on my '37 Kay since 1999. A, D and G plain. E sometimes wound other times plain. I use the Troll for very low volume, Lifeline for when I'm not sure the Troll will work. All other gigs I use the K&K RAB p/u. Been using that model p/u since about '99 also. I use a Fdeck series III and a Empress Para EQ on a small board for notch filtering. AI Claurus for the head and an MAS 46.2. Haven't needed the Empress too much since I got the MAS cab. Still use the Fdeck though. I cannot say enough about this cab. I never thought that a cab would make that much difference.
 
#29
It's interesting to see how complicated we can get (at least for me) with amplification setups. This reinforces my opinion/dislike of piezos in general.

So I did a little shoot-out the other day with various amps, preamps, PA, etc. This took place in my 2.5 car garage so I had some room to get away from my amps, turn up, and listen. I might end up eating my words on not chasing the Ampeg sound, because to my ears I ended up going RSII, fdeck, B100R. The Ampeg was the only device I didn't have to drastically cut anything to get decent tones from. So I guess I must really like that "baked in" Ampeg tone after all. For me, the fewer the gain stages and EQ's a have to deal with, the happier I am. The downside to swapping the radial for the fdeck is losing the DI. They will both stay in my gigging tool box. The DI on the radial is outstanding.

I almost....almost went back and grabbed a mic for comparison, but I didn't want to start the cycle of madness over. Plus the loud noise was driving my beagle crazy.

So I'm back on the fence again. Maybe Ampeg Portaflex series to get more power/less weight. Maybe Fearless with Ampeg head?

I wish I could just play all acoustic or minimal mic'd gigs, but that ain't likely.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Groove Doctor
#32
here's my setup:

Upton standard - bassmax - AI Ten2 - Ampeg 210AV or EA NL210 Cab

I also run:

fdeck - AI Focus SA into either of these 2 cabs - for a DI, I have an orchid mute/DI

I love the AI stuff - much more natural, flat, cleaner than the heads/combos you mentioned

you mentioned you have a contra - maybe it doesnt have enough juice for what you need?
 
#34
I had good luck with the guts/bassmax/fdeck/B100R signal chain. It wasn't very natural at all but warm, punchy, and didn't require any drastic EQ adjustments. Despite the 15" speaker, it wasn't rumbly or feedback prone. I got a cool "gigantic P-Bass on steroids" tone that I found pretty damn usable for pop and loud roots music, though I found after time that I prefer more uncolored (and lightweight) amplification and moved on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Groove Doctor
#35
I use Crown GLM 100 -> ART Tube MP -> WW MI 200-8 -> old AI cabinet. Czech flatback bass from around WW 2, Lenzer all gut strings. But I do not play loud gigs (mainly without drummer). Just got hands on my first amplifier, a Dynacord Bass King T. Tried it out briefly, and it does seem to have "something". But I need to get the transformer rewired for 4 ohm. I hope the local shop can make heads and tails of all the connections available. If anyone here has a tip, you are very welcome!
 
#36
After switching from to steel to guts on my old Kay, I noticed much lower output from the Lifeline pickup and curiously, a thinner sound. Nothing that couldn't be fixed with more gain and less HPF.
On the amp side, with steels I used to have a strong preference for the completely flat, unaffected setting on my Bergantino rig. With guts, suddenly I prefer my electric bass settings: some compression and a dash of lows, low mids & treble. The tube amp works pretty well for the vibe, too.
No complaints really, just observations; just seems to be a whole different beast - for my fingers and for the amps! I look forward to further experimentation.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back