Double Bass GUTS ARE SO MUCH FUN!!!

[Eric Hochberg]

Thanks, Mark, I may take you up on that, although I haven't really had a problem with the spiro/gut mix. I can see how the Animas would be a better transition to the guts. It's just the fat D up high is kind of frustrating on its own.

Marc, we should get together, figure something out soon.

 

[HateyMcAmp]

Beef, eh? Great to know that another uber-expensive gut is out there for me to try.

I need to stay out this forum. So very, very broke.

 

[William Hoffman]

...The gut thump at the beginning of the note is there high or low...

That hasn't been my experience at all. In fact, my experience is exactly the opposite. I have my string height lower precisely because it "sings" more and has less thump...

Mark, not sure whether your thump is the same "high or low" or it's "less" when low.

Oh, okay, so I'm not having your experience, at least in terms of the words I understand and use to describe mine. Not sure yet whether it's the "opposite" experience of yours, "exactly".

What I meant is this: At the higher string height, the Pistoys of course have more room to vibrate. They are louder and the voice of the strings in sustain post-thump ("singing") is much more prominent. That is just generally how gut strings are at a higher playing height.

I like the playability at the lower point, too, but not the sound. I don't understand what you mean when you say your Pistoys sing more a the lower height, I'm assuming you've got them at about 6mm or so. It seems to me your bass would not differ from mine on this bassic point, so I assume I haven't understood what your thought is.

 

[Bobby King]

I'll chime in and say that in my experience: in all instances, on all basses both upright and electric, using any type of string -- higher action produces more thump, boom, bass, volume, while lower action produces more sustain and treble, along with less volume.

 

[tito mangialajo]

I'll chime in and say that in my experience: in all instances, on all basses both upright and electric, using any type of string -- higher action produces more thump, boom, bass, volume, while lower action produces more sustain and treble, along with less volume.

+1

 

[William Hoffman]

I'll chime in and say that in my experience: in all instances, on all basses both upright and electric, using any type of string -- higher action produces more thump, boom, bass, volume, while lower action produces more sustain and treble, along with less volume.

Exactly. More sound. More volume. More thump. More of everything. There is also sustain, but I think you are right that are lower levels sustain is greater.

 

[Marc Piane]

Exactly. More sound. More volume. More thump. More of everything. There is also sustain, but I think you are right that are lower levels sustain is greater.

It's an interesting tradeoff. I prefer everything about the tone when the strings are higher but there is a 'playability threshold'. I had to put spiros on my bass for a day for a session and lowered them ever so slightly. When I threw the guts back on they were happy at that height, sounded big and evil, and easier to play than before. Point is there is definitely a law of diminishing returns with string height.

 

[Mark Perna]

Mark, not sure whether your thump is the same "high or low" or it's "less" when low.

Oh, okay, so I'm not having your experience, at least in terms of the words I understand and use to describe mine. Not sure yet whether it's the "opposite" experience of yours, "exactly".

What I meant is this: At the higher string height, the Pistoys of course have more room to vibrate. They are louder and the voice of the strings in sustain post-thump ("singing") is much more prominent. That is just generally how gut strings are at a higher playing height.

I like the playability at the lower point, too, but not the sound. I don't understand what you mean when you say your Pistoys sing more a the lower height, I'm assuming you've got them at about 6mm or so. It seems to me your bass would not differ from mine on this bassic point, so I assume I haven't understood what your thought is.

G is 7 mm from end of fingerboard to the fingerboard edge of the string. I rarely measure but I was curious this time. It's actually a little lower than normal. I need to kick it up a mm or so.

As far as sound goes, when the G is around 7 mm, I get a Scott LaFaro-like sound. When it's up around 10 mm, I get a more PC or Mingus-like sound. Not as good as any of those guys, mind you, but close enough for comparison purposes.

Higher and the sound is less direct sounding. There are more overtones and the sound is fatter. Down low and the sound is more direct, more focused and thinner---just like with steel strings. The difference between low on gut and low on steel is you still get that front of the note thump with gut whether it is high or low and gut never gets wiry or too thin or unpleasant sounding.

mark

 

[Marcus Johnson]

The very well-used Gamut G on my bass has taken on a rather different character that I really like. It still sings beautifully... but there is another thing going on that's hard to describe. I was trying to define it inside my head, and the closest term I could think of was "dryness". It's really a nice sonic and tactile place to be. Maybe kind of like the bass equivalent of Lee Konitz' sound? I dunno, I can't describe it. The balance over the bass is exemplary now, and so I'm just going to enjoy the ride for as long as I can. It still amazes me that the best set of strings I ever used was gifted to me by a couple of good friends.

I can see why Ben Wolfe likes to play his gut strings until they disintegrate. There is a lot of beautiful music in an old gut string.

 

[William Hoffman]

G is 7 mm from end of fingerboard to the fingerboard edge of the string. I rarely measure but I was curious this time. It's actually a little lower than normal. I need to kick it up a mm or so.

As far as sound goes, when the G is around 7 mm, I get a Scott LaFaro-like sound. When it's up around 10 mm, I get a more PC or Mingus-like sound. Not as good as any of those guys, mind you, but close enough for comparison purposes.

Higher and the sound is less direct sounding. There are more overtones and the sound is fatter. Down low and the sound is more direct, more focused and thinner---just like with steel strings. The difference between low on gut and low on steel is you still get that front of the note thump with gut whether it is high or low and gut never gets wiry or too thin or unpleasant sounding.

mark

Thanks. I had my G down at about 6mm clearance off the FB, and raised it back up to 7 mm or so today. Much better, still quite playable, and direct sounding as you say. Supple, focused, punchy, and loud enough but not stretched too tight or thin.

The very well-used Gamut G on my bass has taken on a rather different character that I really like. It still sings beautifully... The balance over the bass is exemplary now, and so I'm just going to enjoy the ride for as long as I can. It still amazes me that the best set of strings I ever used was gifted to me by a couple of good friends.

I can see why Ben Wolfe likes to play his gut strings until they disintegrate. There is a lot of beautiful music in an old gut string.

Marcus, you are so lucky. Don't change a thing! Your Gamuts are only about two years old, right? They've got years left on them!

 

[Marcus Johnson]

Marcus, you are so lucky. Don't change a thing! Your Gamuts are only about two years old, right? They've got years left on them!

That's my thinking right now. Today, I played them acoustically in a rehearsal with the great singer Amy Hanaiali'i, and my pal Sal Godinez on the house Steinway in the Castle Theater at the Maui Arts and Cultural Center. Nice room, 1200 seats. It's the best room I get to play in from an acoustic viewpoint. Heavenly.

The only reason I'm even thinking of buying new Gamuts is that I don't want to be without them if something breaks, or Dan Larson retires.

 

[kane612]

Played my first gig on some new strings last night
Gamut med+ pistoy G, light+ D, and velvet animas on the bottom.

I had a late night and an afternoon of playing them in before the gig. Man, THIS IS IT!
The tension on those evah regulars i've been using the past year were choking my bass. It's already starting to open back up, in a big way. The D sprouted a few small hairs (oddly, near my octave and fifth harmonic points, not near the bridge or nut), but they seem to be holding up now.

My guts are varnished, and i feel that bowing them is not an issue for me. I'm already getting used to the anima/gut difference when crossing between A and D strings. I think when the highs soften as they age, they will match very well. And intonation is not a huge adjustment. (I think people neglect to mention that bowing and intonation take a certain amount of, i don't know,.......... oh yeah, PRACTICE!, regardless of your string choice.)

I feels great to have my action back up too. ( say 10mm-14mm or so).

I went Re20 to the house (small club) last night, and boy-0, that mic captures the bloom of these strings sooooo well. I found that they sounded even better, and more even, when i stood 6-8 inches farther from the mic.

I can't wait to see what a new endpin and post adjustment will do in a month or so.

So many years wasted playing hybrid strings and gut clones, it just seems silly now. There is no substitute for gut (or at least two gut strings). I AM EXSTATIC about this sound. If they pass my durability standards, i'll have to go for the pistoy A too.

top of the world, ma!



edit: actually, now that i got my bass out today, i see a 2-3 small hairs on the D. what gives? i've read so much about people playing the same gamuts for years, and now i'm slightly concerned this 2-3 hairs a session scenario may take it's toll. The G seems to be holding up fine. Bare in mind, these hairs are sprouting hear the octave point or fifth area of the string.

Is it possible i have a faulty D? i only ask as most people speak so highly of the varnished pistoy D's durability.

but damn, the string sure sounds great. perhaps i should have went with a medium gauge d.

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

My Pistoy light + D also gets a hairy stubble sometimes. It usually happens when I start to sweat and really go to work. My solution is to burn them off, sand with 600 grit and oil liberally with almond oil. Good as new. I have no idea why the lyon G behaves better but it just does.

Regarding your comment about your endpin, I switched from CF to steel and finally to a drumstick.
I had one of these Invalid Link Removed and switched the pin this Steve Gadd Nylon (SSGN) and this Buy CVS Small Base Quad Cane Tips 1/2 Inch online at CVS.com. I was pleasantly surprised by how well this tip grips the floor. Sitting with a lot of lean on the bass, it doesn't slip at all, even on slick floors.

Going back to CF from steel warmed things up quite a bit but at the expense of clarity. The drumstick helped my bass open up on the low end and brought back the clarity and is also a bit brighter on the top. I also switched my heavy ebony tailpiece for a much lighter basswood one which I lightened more by removing a lot of wood from the back. The improvement from that was pretty significant.

Once I made the comittment to gut, adjusting the bass to that was a no-brainer.

Welcome to the Gamut club.

 

[Paul Barsic]

The D sprouted a few small hairs (oddly, near my octave and fifth harmonic points, not near the bridge or nut), but they seem to be holding up now.

When my strings were new, I would get hairs up around the octave, too. The advice I got was to clip them right where they come off the string with sharp nail clippers, gently sand the spot with 400 to 600 grit sandpaper, and oil the strings. I use walnut oil.

This video from Upton is helpful:
YouTube - Upton Bass: Gut String Maintenance

 

[kane612]

thanks guys, i forgot to menton that i have been sanding them as i find them. i thought that since they are varnished oiling them wouldn't be necessary, but oh well. they sound good anyway.

in regard to almond/walnut oil, is there an added benefit to these oils over, say, olive oil? something perhaps about protein/nut based oils?

clink - i just ordered a 5/8" rod and plug to start experimenting with wood and carbon fiber rods. pretty stoked about it. about a year ago i made the switch to a carbon fiber tailpiece at the suggestion of my repair guy, and i was amazed at how the clarity and projection improved on my bass.

 

[Mark Perna]

Interesting. I've been playing my Gamuts (Pistoy G/D) for a really long time and I've never seen a hair. I've never oiled them. Never sanded them. I occasionally will wipe them down but not very often.

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

I should prolly put this in 'setup' but........ I made these changes during the two weeks I missed my Friday steady and tonight was the first time I played there since.
We normally have a trio (no drummer) and my amp volume has been set about 1:00. Tonight was a quartet (tenor, guitar, piano and me) and the bass was louder with the volume at 10:00. I am gonna try leaving the amp in the car on duo or quiet trio stuff.

The bass is really sounding great so I am gonna leave it alone for the rest of the year and enjoy it.

Marc, that's disappointing that you do nothing and I have the hairy problem. I would prefer they grow on my head, but such is life.

 

[Jason Sypher]

I never had "hairing"....dry hands

 

[Marc Piane]

Ok. So I have two basses. My carved Shen and a German ply. I have the Anima/gut thing on my Shen. Totally loving it. So much so that I don't like playing my ply bass which I do use from time to time. I have some used guts I bought here a while back. I'm this close to putting them on. Talk me into or out of it.

 

[Bobby King]

Ok. So I have two basses. My carved Shen and a German ply. I have the Anima/gut thing on my Shen. Totally loving it. So much so that I don't like playing my ply bass which I do use from time to time. I have some used guts I bought here a while back. I'm this close to putting them on. Talk me into or out of it.

If you've got 2 basses, I'd keep Spirocores on one them. That way you can always second guess yourself without having to change strings. Seriously though, having one bass with steel gives you arco options as well as another pizz sound to play with.