Double Bass GUTS ARE SO MUCH FUN!!!

[Marc Piane]

I do find that, on my bass, the Gamuts sing and have quite a bit of midrange clarity. Your investment in all of these different guts does certainly carry a lot of weight though. I don't know of anyone else trying so many different guts, so thank you for your relaying your experiences.

Yep. Thanks bro.

I guess the midrange clarity is what I really like about Gamuts. I have been a steel guy all my life and maybe they are a nice 'hybrid' between the clarity of steel and the bloom of gut.

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

But for now...

YouTube - MIngus Solo Bass

This is the sound I'm going for. To my ears, on my bass, the Chorda's get me the closest. The rest lies in practicing.

Love me some Mingus. That guy brought 100% everytime he touched the bass. What I like best about Mingus is his soul, his passion for bringing it.

Although Haden uses Golden Spirals on top and Spirocores (I think) on the bottom, the Gamut/Velvet mix gets me pretty close to this sound, which is what I've been hearing for about five years now.
We can talk about the 'best' as much as we want, but the strings that work best with our minds, hands and basses to help facilitate getting the sound we want to hear are the ones we should be using.

Charlie Haden:
YouTube - Charlie Haden & Antonio Forcione La Pasionaria (Haden)

 

[Mark Perna]

Really, Gamuts are the only gut string I've tried so I don't have any perspective on the other brands out there. They very well may be better but I love the sound of my Gamut/Anima mix so much that I see no reason to mess with it. I go for that Scott LaFaro at the Vanguard kind of sound and I can get reasonably close to it with the Gamuts/Velvets with the strings pretty low.

mark

 

[kane612]

I have tried a few different Gamut's, Chorda's, and all that. Both new and used. As it stands now, I have the set on my bass, 3 Chorda sets and my set of Gamuts in the string drawer. I've learned that it's not economically wise to sell the sets you buy new. They stay with me as backups.

I hear what you are saying as far as time on the bass goes. Perhaps I could have waited a bit longer for the Gamuts, but they just weren't working for me. I found myself thinking too much about getting a sound while I was playing. It was distracting.

I've put them back on my bass a few times. They have a lot of nice qualities. If I ever decide to use an amp again, perhaps I will try them with a pickup and see how they sound there. But for now...

YouTube - MIngus Solo Bass

This is the sound I'm going for. To my ears, on my bass, the Chorda's get me the closest. The rest lies in practicing.

Thanks Nathan.

I'm about to order some varnished pistoy's (i think) for the first time, and everybody raves about lighter/med. gauge gamuts here on talkbass, but i think i'm going to go for the heavier gauges after hearing your opinion, as i tend to prefer an older bump, like yourself. Although, i bow a lot too, so ..... oh well.

edit: man, i'm not so sure about this. i might just have to go back to animas and live with the copper fingers. somebody put a lock on my pegbox.

 

[William Hoffman]

Thomas, I have had experience with Gamuts, Dlugolecki's, and Pirastro Carlos Henriquez Chorda's. I used to use the C.H. Chorda's, but I have switched to the original Chorda's, as they work a bit better for me. The Chorda's are my string of choice for the time being. They have a super round sound, and they move a lot of air. They don't have as much upper register singiness as the Gamut's, and they are not as even throughout all the registers. But, they sound the most 3 dimensional of the three sets.

I have the least time with Dlugolecki's strings, but I'm saving up to try another set, know that I know just what I'm looking for. Of all of them, the Gamut's are my least favorite. They are clearly nice and well made, but they lack are certain something for me and my sound. They just don't sound old school enough for my tastes. It seems that most the people that dig them are looking for a different sound than I am.

So, while the Chorda's might not be the most versatile of 3 fancy sets, I think they sound the best. And, in my experience, their wound strings (E and A) are the toughest of the bunch. I am a tad heavy handed, and the Chorda's hold up to much abuse.

I hope this made sense. I'm not super articulate, but there might be a few cogent ideas in there. I hope I don't get in trouble for this. It's a freakin' Gamut love-fest in these forums, and I'm sure the string mafioso are reading this.

Nathan, your comment pushes the envelope. a gut-gut comparison would be very worthwhile. There are lots of comments here on TB about guts made by various makers, but very little comparison.

My gut experience is limited to Gamuts (Lyons and Pistoy) for the last 3 years, so I cannot speak to how they compare. I am happy with their sound, evenness, and projection in the upper ranges. Your comment about "singiness" -- is that projection or sustain in higher positions, and that's what the Chordas have less of?

But to be useful for others, such a comparison needs a basis and that can only be met if someone truly takes the time to play the strings compared for a long enough time to be able speak from experience.

 

[Uncletoad]

But to be useful for others, such a comparison needs a basis and that can only be met if someone truly takes the time to play the strings compared for a long enough time to be able speak from experience.

I would be nice to have a more detailed comparison but I think nathan's experience with those strings is worthy no matter how not broken in they were. Who is going to buy a set of each freshly new, use them for 6 months each set and document what they find? I can't afford that myself so this will have to do.

I have played Gamuts, Chordas and a bunch of Vintage gut strings on a variety of different basses. Certainly not with any kind of control or scientific method. Regardless I agree with Nathan here.

Gamuts do something that is different than the others. Longer note lengths, more precise pitch focus, they sing. They still sound like gut, thumpy and fat but there is less "tuned drum" and more actual "string". The old school gut 50's jazz sound is in there but really not as "authentic" as the Chorda or the old guts.

Personallly I liked the feel of the Chordas quite a bit but they sounded like I was playing on a stump with a condom over it. Not for me....but I love spiros so what do I know. What I liked about the Gamuts was their vocal quality combined with that Gut presence in the mix.

I think Nathan's pointing out that it's not an "authentic old school" sound is right on the money. It's a damn good sound either way, and much more interesting to me than the "tuned bass drum" thing.

 

[William Hoffman]

I would be nice to have a more detailed comparison but I think nathan's experience with those strings is worthy no matter how not broken in they were. Who is going to buy a set of each freshly new, use them for 6 months each set and document what they find? I can't afford that myself so this will have to do.

I have played Gamuts, Chordas and a bunch of Vintage gut strings on a variety of different basses. Certainly not with any kind of control or scientific method. Regardless I agree with Nathan here.

Gamuts do something that is different than the others. Longer note lengths, more precise pitch focus, they sing. They still sound like gut, thumpy and fat but there is less "tuned drum" and more actual "string". The old school gut 50's jazz sound is in there but really not as "authentic" as the Chorda or the old guts.

Personallly I liked the feel of the Chordas quite a bit but they sounded like I was playing on a stump with a condom over it. Not for me....but I love spiros so what do I know. What I liked about the Gamuts was their vocal quality combined with that Gut presence in the mix.

I think Nathan's pointing out that it's not an "authentic old school" sound is right on the money. It's a damn good sound either way, and much more interesting to me than the "tuned bass drum" thing.

Thanks Phil. I agree they would not necessarily need to be bought new. Unless someone who has played them each for quite a while, comparison is not "scientific" -- in fact, even that wouldn't be scientific, just less off-the-cuff, less subjective, more of a basis in experience.

Never tried the Chordas, glad to hear there is a good "old school" string there. Maybe I should try 'em. Anybody got a set of Chordas I could borrow for a few months and compare with my 18-month old Gamuts?

 

[Nathan Parker]

Thanks Phil. I agree they would not necessarily need to be bought new. Unless someone who has played them each for quite a while, comparison is not "scientific" -- in fact, even that wouldn't be scientific, just less off-the-cuff, less subjective, more of a basis in experience.

Never tried the Chordas, glad to hear there is a good "old school" string there. Maybe I should try 'em. Anybody got a set of Chordas I could borrow for a few months and compare with my 18-month old Gamuts?

I would do it if you concede that my strings are better than yours

 

[kane612]

....
I have played Gamuts, Chordas and a bunch of Vintage gut strings on a variety of different basses. Certainly not with any kind of control or scientific method. Regardless I agree with Nathan here.

Gamuts do something that is different than the others. Longer note lengths, more precise pitch focus, they sing. They still sound like gut, thumpy and fat but there is less "tuned drum" and more actual "string". The old school gut 50's jazz sound is in there but really not as "authentic" as the Chorda or the old guts.

...

Hey Uncletoad. I read here that you have experience with various gauges of gamuts. Would you say that the heavier you go, the more old school the gamut?

(i think i pretty much have to go varnished pistoy considering how much i bow, and how long i would need these strings to last for the $)

Also, an off-topic question about baby bass strings i have been meaning to ask, have you ever tried solo evahs or weichs on your ampeg?

Thanks.

 

[Bobby King]

I had a fair amount of "new old stock" gut strings over the years, and there was quite a variety in terms of being more thumpy, singey, thick, thin, etc. I don't think you can really generalize. The sound you get can also depend on the bass set-up, and of course your playing style.

Some NOS strings I had:

LaBella Sweettone G&D. These had a waxy, moisture resistant finish. I remember the D was very good, almost as good as Gamut's Pistoy.

LaBella Red Gut D strings. Also had the waxy finish. These were great, but they were thin and sort of floppy. Great, clear tone though. These led me to believe that thinner guts get better definition and sustain, but you have to deal with the floppy and can't dig in hard.

Roth wound E string. The first time I had a wound E that had clear pitch. It showed me it was possible! It was fairly light gauge. When I got it it was unused but very tarnished. Cleaned it up with silver polish and alcohol and used it for several years.

Fisoma wound E&A. These has a red gut core, sounded good, but the windings would come loose. Bought several on ebay and they all would have the same problem.

Various Kaplan Red-O-Rays -- these are overrated IMO. Good for impressing Rockabillies and Bluegrassers.

Kaplan/D'Addario Golden Spirals. These were quite good, but I wished they had more tension. For a while, R. Cocco made a similar custom string you could buy from George Chestnut in Nashville, they had more tension and were great, but Cocco only made them for him for a brief time.

NOS regular LaBellas, mostly dried out and crappy. The wound strings are huge and awful.

When I first got into gut, Lemur and others carried Gotz gut strings. These were pretty good except for the wound E which was dead and frustrating. And the D was never as good as the G. I'd describe these as "better than Lenzner".

Various others, both good and bad.

I would say that Gamut's strings are every bit as good as the best of those NOS strings. We are lucky that they are available. But unfortunately, they cost a small fortune!

 

[ctxbass]

I started consistently playing gut strings eight years ago with a set of Chordas. The wound E and A were particularly sensitive to temperature swings, and the air conditioning going on and off in some rooms made it a tuning nightmare. I replaced the the E&A with Olivs, and then Eudoxas, providing some improvement in stability. Then on to Permanent E&A for a couple of years, much improved stability. Switched the Chorda D for Gamut Lyon D medium. Much better sound, but went for a Lyon medium + to ease the tension difference between steel and gut.
Various experiments with Spiros and synthetics yielded less than satisfactory results.
On to Helicore Orch. heavy E&A for a while. A bit more comfortable than Permanents.

January this year, I installed Carlos Henriquez Chorda E&A with a NOS Kaplan unwound (no tynex) D and the original Chorda G.
It has been such a pleasure to get such matching tension and sound that I could kick myself in the head for messing around for so long. The C.H. E string is much more pizz user friendly then the original Chorda E. 12mm rather than the 15mm I needed to make the old style string work.

Tuning issues: I don't find it too bad as the temperature gets warmer or cooler. The big frustration is when the heating/ AC cycling keeps the room going from hot to cold and back again and again. Maybe I can deal with it this time.

 

[William Hoffman]

I would do it if you concede that my strings are better than yours

haha. I would love to try them out Nathan if you'll loan them to me. I don't think I should concede anything sight unseen but I will promise to have an open mind and be fair in whatever opinion I might express later. PM sent...

 

[Marcus Johnson]

These last few posts are some of the most useful in this thread IMHO. In addition to making the decision of how much you're willing to spend for a set of guts, a player clearly also has to know how to answer "what's the basic sound I'm after?" I love the "tuned drum" concept as a listener. But like Mark Perna, my benchmark sounds are a little more defined... Scotty was a big one for me too, and PC of course.

So any first hand info like this is very useful, regardless of your budget. It becomes even more so when you're looking at paying five bills for a set of strings.

 

[William Hoffman]

...and PC of course.

Marcus, to me the Gamut copper wound A and E sure have that PC sound! And when I hear recordings of Oscar Pettiford, I hear him playing my Gamut D and G.

 

[Jason Sypher]

I know it's been said, many times, many ways....we must factor in the bass! If any of these gut strings are put on a plywood bass they are going to sound more "tuned drum" and if any of these strings are put on a Prescott they'll sound more PC. I think we can get too focused on the accessories and not enough on the bass.

 

[Bobby King]

I know it's been said, many times, many ways....we must factor in the bass! If any of these gut strings are put on a plywood bass they are going to sound more "tuned drum" and if any of these strings are put on a Prescott they'll sound more PC. I think we can get too focused on the accessories and not enough on the bass.

I have to agree with this. And if a bass sounds better with Spiros, Velvets, etc., then by all means use them. No point putting guts on a bass and not get the sound you wish you were getting. The "idea" of gut doesn't make it sound good.

Also true that while Gamuts are better than Lenzners, both will sound better on a good, gut-responsive bass.

I think I spent years and thousands of dollars trying to get that gut sound and feel happening on my basses, only to find that some other string actually sounded better, then not wanting to believe that, and then repeating steps 1 thru 3.

I finally have a bass that really works with gut (not meaning to gloat) and ironically it's a beat-up old thing I bought for $800, and it's got all sorts of repaired cracks, a somewhat collapsed top, and repairs done with wood-putty and popsicle sticks. But it plays and sounds great, I've got a nice set of Gamuts on it and have had no temptations to change them

 

[Marcus Johnson]

Marcus, to me the Gamut copper wound A and E sure have that PC sound! And when I hear recordings of Oscar Pettiford, I hear him playing my Gamut D and G.

Yup, it's there. Actually, on my bass (the La Scala), the copper Gamuts are sort of hybrid between PC's sound and Scotty's slightly more sustained, singing sound. Which makes the whole set pretty much perfect for my tastes.

 

[Marcus Johnson]

Some observations.... at some point in the future, I'll have to remove the Gamut set to replace the G&D with new Gamuts, and when I do that, I'm also planning on sending the E & A to Gamut for a fresh copper winding. Of course something has to go onto the bass while I'm waiting, so I can continue to work. That will most likely be my old standby set, Spiro weichs with a Mittel E. Perfectly nice old reliable.

And of course, a guy wonders... will I fall back in love with the old setup? Been a long time.

Two things have convinced me that it won't happen. First, I spent yesterday doing yard work, and listening to the live Fred Hersch CD, recorded at the Vanguard with Drew Gress on bass. Drew has always been the one guy that makes me think I should at least consider Spiros again. He plays brilliantly on this album. And his tone is great... but it's not what I hear in my own head any more. The Spiro envy seems to have gone away.

Then, to seal the deal, I played unamplified on the Gamuts last night, in a piano duo in a room with fantastic acoustic properties. That pretty much clinched it. I can maybe play more notes on the Spiros.... (although probably not at this point).... but the notes just mean more to me on the guts.

 

[Aaron Cohn]

Update: I've had about 2.5 months on the Dlugolecki G and D now. (44 and 56 gauge respectively). I like 'em a lot. They sound better and better. The G in particular is amazing. It has plenty of brightness and sustain, and also has plenty of brute impact. I like the D too, though if I were to order again I might go a little heavier in gauge. Nice gut sound, and while it's of course not as clear as the G it's playable up the neck and certainly isn't indistinct.

About a week after I put them on, they shed a number of very fine hairs that came off on their own. Since then, almost nothing -- they're in great shape.

I was coming from a full set of Animas, and at first my bass seemed quieter but I think it may have recovered some of that volume. The guts now even seem louder than the A and E in many situations.

But the A and E are nearing the end, and now I have a decision to make. I'm considering:

--Wound gut A and E. I'd love to try it. I think I might like it a lot as long as I got good ones with solid pitch definition. I live in the climate for it. But the $$ is steep... For those of you who use them, how long do you get out of them?

--Replace my Anima A and E with new ones. Same as before, decent match, but I might wonder what might have been... But I like the Animas; I feel about them much as many here feel about Spirocores (minus the crazy longevity).

--Sell the D and get new Anima E, A and D. Don't get me wrong, I like the gut D a lot and I think it has some wonderful qualities that an Anima D doesn't. But on my bass I think the G matches better with the Animas. I think Anima E, A and D with the gut G would be a wonderfully balanced set, even though I'd miss the deep punch of the gut D sometimes. More like a set of Animas with an upgraded G.

I'll figure it out soon enough, at least before my Anima A and E die completely.

 

[Marc Piane]

Some observations.... at some point in the future, I'll have to remove the Gamut set to replace the G&D with new Gamuts, and when I do that, I'm also planning on sending the E & A to Gamut for a fresh copper winding. Of course something has to go onto the bass while I'm waiting, so I can continue to work. That will most likely be my old standby set, Spiro weichs with a Mittel E. Perfectly nice old reliable.

And of course, a guy wonders... will I fall back in love with the old setup? Been a long time.

Two things have convinced me that it won't happen. First, I spent yesterday doing yard work, and listening to the live Fred Hersch CD, recorded at the Vanguard with Drew Gress on bass. Drew has always been the one guy that makes me think I should at least consider Spiros again. He plays brilliantly on this album. And his tone is great... but it's not what I hear in my own head any more. The Spiro envy seems to have gone away.

Then, to seal the deal, I played unamplified on the Gamuts last night, in a piano duo in a room with fantastic acoustic properties. That pretty much clinched it. I can maybe play more notes on the Spiros.... (although probably not at this point).... but the notes just mean more to me on the guts.

I had a brief brush with Spiros. I got hired for a recording session today and the guy asked specifically for Spiros. The price was right so I reluctantly took the guts/Anima mix off and strung up some several year old Spiro reds. I used the Spiros for a gig last night and while there was all kinds of balls to the tone I was missing the pulse that I got from gut. I did the session today and thought for a brief second about just leaving the Spiros on. I resisted and put the gut/Anima mix back on after dinner tonight. Immediately I felt home.