olivieraleman - love to know how they compare. I struggle with a weak D on my bass. I'm using Velvet Animas now but I'm considering moving to gut D/G and making them heavies.
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Double Bass GUTS ARE SO MUCH FUN!!!
- Thread starter Marc Piane
- Start date
Progris report. Ok. So I'm putting my Evahs back on. Did the show tonight and I was totally acoustic mic'd into the PA. There was too much difference in tone. I'll try guts again but I really struggled tonight tonewise and had to work too hard on getting the bass to sound right. Couldn't forget about the bass and let the instrument be an illusion. end progris report.
Mojo
Even the heavy+ D Lyon still had some choked notes, but it was so fat it kind of compensated. Ive tried the Pistoy light and it was slightly more articulate. I played a nice job tonight, all acoustic instruments, and several bass players used my bass and I got to sit and listen. Mic, no amp. The weakness of the D was not so noticable as when you're standing over it. I'll let everyone know how it goes once I get the new strings on. John
Even the heavy+ D Lyon still had some choked notes, but it was so fat it kind of compensated. Ive tried the Pistoy light and it was slightly more articulate. I played a nice job tonight, all acoustic instruments, and several bass players used my bass and I got to sit and listen. Mic, no amp. The weakness of the D was not so noticable as when you're standing over it. I'll let everyone know how it goes once I get the new strings on. John
- May 6, 2003
- 5,272
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- Disclosures
- Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
I had a bunch of gigs like that with guts. I always end up back with Spirocores so I can just bitch about the G.
Been there. I tried guts 3 times and always went back to Spiros until this last time. It's frustrating. You want to hear what you're used to hearing and you can't get it. It takes a while to replace those expectations with those you can get from gut. It's a tough transition particularly for guys who are used to playing at a certain level and, until you've made the transition, you feel like you're not playing up to your potential.
mark
There are definitely things I really like about gut. I felt like I could add a bounce to the swing that I can't with steel. The attack is awesome. The sustain was the hardest part to get used to. This particular show has lots off ballads and slower tunes. Soloing on ballads with guts is a mystery to me right now. I may experiment again in January when the calendar is a little sparser.
I had exactly the same problem with soloing. I listened to a ton of Scott LaFaro (in fact, it was all I listened to for 3 months) and liberally stole stuff from him until I had a sense of soloing with guts. I'd suggest doing something similar with whichever soloist from the gut era most floats your boat. LaFaro is a really good choice because many of his lines don't sound quite right on steel stings but are amazing on gut. Whenever I try to play LaFaro lines on steel strings, it always comes out sounding like Jaco on upright which is definitely not what I'm usually going for.
mark
Man. I might have to bum a gut G & D off of you to check out.
I dig my Spiro Mittel E & A plus Obli D & G setup, but I really want that Paul Chambers THUMP for walkin'!
I dig my Spiro Mittel E & A plus Obli D & G setup, but I really want that Paul Chambers THUMP for walkin'!
Jason I just bought a used set of Clef guts for the E and A and ur welcome to try the D and G. Let me know. John
On this weekends acoustic gig I had a chance to here my new bass with Chorda Carlos in comparison to my friends old carved bass with Spiros. I got to sit in the audience in a medium sized room and here both basses with just a mic. I was pleased that the guts carried the room as well as the steels.
Tito, Yes I can. The Chorda Carlos offer a smaller gauge D and E than regular Chorda. The A is around .100, which is about standard on modern guts, Lenzner, Clef, etc.. The thin gauge D is supposed to offer more clarity but alot depends on your bass.
The Gamut heavy+D that I got from Phil was as clear, even used, as the Chorda D. I had a used Pistoy light D that was clearer than the Lyon or Chorda, but not as fat. I personally like the heavier gauges and should have a new heavy+ Gamut Lyon G and Pisoy D soon. I will report when they come and I have them on a month or so. John
The Gamut heavy+D that I got from Phil was as clear, even used, as the Chorda D. I had a used Pistoy light D that was clearer than the Lyon or Chorda, but not as fat. I personally like the heavier gauges and should have a new heavy+ Gamut Lyon G and Pisoy D soon. I will report when they come and I have them on a month or so. John
progris report
So I put the Evahs back on for the Sunday show. It was like coming home. The thing with any instrument is forgetting about it and letting it become an illusion. I only tried guts for a week but I felt like I could never get to the point where I could just hear, respond, be in the zone and just be a vessel. It's hard enough when everything is perfect. The physical and sonic differences were great enough that I was always in my own head.
I can also be a bit of a growl junky. Especially on ballads which I absolutely LOVE to play. Spiros are too much on my bass but Evahs are perfect. Dark but with nice sustain and mwah. I cranked the strings up a bit with the guts and left them there when I put the Evahs back on. My bass sounds dangerous or as my friend says 'there is enough testosterone in your sound to get women who sit in the front pregnant'.
The lessons I learned were great though. It taught me to slow down and think. It also taught me a bit about how I attack the notes. The attack of Evahs and guts are very different and they put a slightly different drive in the music.
For the time being I may throw these guts back on my other bass and live with the gut thing a little more. There were definitely things that I really liked and other things that drove me to drink... which isn't all bad I guess.
end progris report
So I put the Evahs back on for the Sunday show. It was like coming home. The thing with any instrument is forgetting about it and letting it become an illusion. I only tried guts for a week but I felt like I could never get to the point where I could just hear, respond, be in the zone and just be a vessel. It's hard enough when everything is perfect. The physical and sonic differences were great enough that I was always in my own head.
I can also be a bit of a growl junky. Especially on ballads which I absolutely LOVE to play. Spiros are too much on my bass but Evahs are perfect. Dark but with nice sustain and mwah. I cranked the strings up a bit with the guts and left them there when I put the Evahs back on. My bass sounds dangerous or as my friend says 'there is enough testosterone in your sound to get women who sit in the front pregnant'.
The lessons I learned were great though. It taught me to slow down and think. It also taught me a bit about how I attack the notes. The attack of Evahs and guts are very different and they put a slightly different drive in the music.
For the time being I may throw these guts back on my other bass and live with the gut thing a little more. There were definitely things that I really liked and other things that drove me to drink... which isn't all bad I guess.
end progris report
You're on the same path I took with guts. I put them on. They sounded great. Had a few problems that were discouraging and put the Spiros back on and felt like I was home. I repeated this 3 more times over the years. Finally, 11 years after my first try, I decided I REALLY wanted to get a Scott LaFaro-like tone out of my bass. That sound from the Vanguard recordings just called to me. I had to get close to that. But there is simply NO way to do that with steel or hybrid strings so I put the guts on. Went through exactly what you went through but this time I muscled through the transition period. It's a TOUGH period because your tried and true bits don't work anymore and you have to come with new ones. There were times where I felt like I was playing someone else's instrument. Eventually, you figure out and internalize the touch and you figure out what kinds of lines work well with gut and you're off. I'm at the point now where I'm totally comfortable playing on gut and would really miss it if I had to go back to steel strings. There is just that sound you can't get from steel strings and they sit in a place in the music that you can't get to with steel strings.
I totally get that you need to go back to Evahs but put the guts on your back up bass and mess with it from time to time. Eventually, you might find that they are more comfortable for soloing.
mark
I totally get that you need to go back to Evahs but put the guts on your back up bass and mess with it from time to time. Eventually, you might find that they are more comfortable for soloing.
mark
Playing on gut requires a certain kind of mindset and approach. It's not always that easy to go back and forth between steel and gut. Steel strings have a lot of advantages as far as playability and you get used to them. You have to be motivated by the gut sound to want to put up with the drawbacks. I've always found that I can hear and feel a bass more with guts. Often I find that when I take particular notice of a player's sound, they're playing on gut. Gut creates a certain definition to a note because of it's attack and decay characteristics. This is not to say that aren't plenty of steel string players whose sound and approach I admire, and I've heard players achieve a kind of sound that appeals to me using steel. I've tried many types of strings (understatement 
) but I always gravitate back to gut.
My recent acquisition, the blonde Jacobus Hornsteiner bass, sounds particularly great with guts, so I have no intention of changing anytime soon. I even had a new bridge made for it with no adjusters!
) but I always gravitate back to gut.My recent acquisition, the blonde Jacobus Hornsteiner bass, sounds particularly great with guts, so I have no intention of changing anytime soon. I even had a new bridge made for it with no adjusters!
I love that Mingus/Chambers gut punch kind of sound. That's why I'm gonna keep experimenting.
Drew Gress sells a lot of Spiros though and there is some serious doom in his sound.
Drew Gress sells a lot of Spiros though and there is some serious doom in his sound.
There's the rub. If that Mingus/Chambers sound is in your head and you want to catch a little of that vibe (like I did with the LaFaro stuff), you have to go with gut strings. I'd suggest picking a few of your favorite Mingus or Chambers solos and learn them on your back up bass. Not to be a clone of either of them. You're already too advanced a player for that to happen anyway but by liberally stealing a line here or a line there, you'll quickly figure out what works and what doesn't and you already know how to make it your own.
One trick I didn't tell you about is if you want to play faster or with more focus, play with the extreme tips of the fingers on both hands. You'll still get the thick sound because they're gut strings but they'll respond a little faster and with a little more focus. You get a thinner, big fretless sound when you try that with steel strings.
mark
One trick I didn't tell you about is if you want to play faster or with more focus, play with the extreme tips of the fingers on both hands. You'll still get the thick sound because they're gut strings but they'll respond a little faster and with a little more focus. You get a thinner, big fretless sound when you try that with steel strings.
mark
Well, the Gamut medium G and D are settling in nicely (D is improving daily as it stretches), and I'm kinda mystified by how nice a match the Spiro solos are. You can dig in on the guts up to a certain point, at which there is no more; same with the Spiros, and it seems to occur at the same place. The difference in diameter from D to A is not as weird as I thought as first-it just shows you can get used to anything if you like the sound.
I love the feel/sound of guts. i have been playing guts for five years (still using the same set of all plain guts) and when I play a bass with steels they just feel wrong
Its just one of those things were you cant really live with out once to had the best
Its just one of those things were you cant really live with out once to had the best
- May 6, 2003
- 5,272
- 160
- 64
- Disclosures
- Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
I liked Gut/Spiro matching. Very different sounds that when I chose where to grab the note gave me more colors than with all gut or all steel. I like the upper register notes to be full and round and the lower register to be long fat and growly notes.
At the moment Oliv/Spiro mix does that for me without the scratch of the guts under the bow.
I don't usually recommend that to people though, it's pretty weird.
