• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Double Bass GUTS ARE SO MUCH FUN!!!

...With that said, I`m definently back to plain gut ADG, with a Evah slap E. Got a new bridge fitted week ago for this setup and I haven`t had too much time to mess with it as it has been basically the busiest time of the year. The bass sounds now better than ever, it was really good when I picked it up from the luthier, but after maintaining the strings and raising the action full turn last week it got really good. First of all, sustain is great, better than with any plain ADG setup before, bowing is easier than with ANY setup before, the bass is LOUD AS ALL HELL overall. No need to overdo anything on the right hand, relaxed touch with as precise as possible left hand delivers the room filling, and with the bow I can feel the floor moving when messing on the A string. I literally lolled when I picked up the bass first time today, like what happened?

These are the cheapest trustworthy guts available, my set of Efrano medium ADG / Evah slap E costs exactly 250€ delivered here. Efranos ( and other cheapo guts ) do get bashed on TB frequently, but my experience isn`t like that all. These do sound great and play easy, especially arco. With that in mind, I know what to expect and how to deal with the outcome with plain guts and how completely different they are when compared to standard modern strings. I wouldn`t recommend the cheap end guts for a gut beginner anymore. If Pistoys, Dlugoleckis or Chorda C.H`s doesn`t make it clear what it is about these strings, the Efranos wouldn`t be anything but more of a PITA to get rid off. That`s how my Efrano plain E is, I didn`t jump to the deepest end and try enough with it because all of it would have been too much.

For me, guts are not a option anymore, they`re the default. One needs to hear the DB like that, and be obsessive enough to overcome the obstacles and widen the landscape. That`s how I hear the instrument, that`s my expectation of the tone of DB, what I expect to hear when I pick up one, what I want to hear in the mix. Feel is another important factor, no Spirocore, Obligato or Velvet can deliver that much sound, be as dynamical and colourful while beeing weather-light to play. You can play on guts very quiet and still deliver a room filling bass-y tone in all registers. Or you can get to the other end of the spectrum, with the help of your own frequency zone in the mix and a physical setup that doesn`t kill you even when extreme. That`s one thing, when you have room under the strings you have room for variation on your right hand, you have options for the outcome. I don`t think a Spiro red G at 5 mm`s would be like that, for me at least. This comes from someone who would absolutely be exclusively using a full set of Spiro weichs if guts were not the end-all of it.

Amped tone is another thing. If you want your DB sound like bass quitar, plug your Spiro stringed bass with a piezo to any bass amp. If you want the same sounding like double bass, string it with guts. My experience is that great amped Spirocore DB tone comes only with a mic, or in mix with the piezo. With Spiros you need the grace felix, tonedexter, cable made out of unicorns pubic hair, 4000 on the amp and a red carpet to walk all this stuff on. Then, any pile of s**t that can be called a bass amp will do just fine with guts, if it can take the DB in the first place. That`s my experience and YMMV :)
 
Last edited:
...With that said, I`m definently back to plain gut ADG, with a Evah slap E. Got a new bridge fitted week ago for this setup and I haven`t had too much time to mess with it as it has been basically the busiest time of the year. The bass sounds now better than ever, it was really good when I picked it up from the luthier, but after maintaining the strings and raising the action full turn last week it got really good. First of all, sustain is great, better than with any plain ADG setup before, bowing is easier than with ANY setup before, the bass is LOUD AS ALL HELL overall. No need to overdo anything on the right hand, relaxed touch with as precise as possible left hand delivers the room filling, and with the bow I can feel the floor moving when messing on the A string. I literally lolled when I picked up the bass first time today, like what happened?

These are the cheapest trustworthy guts available, my set of Efrano medium ADG / Evah slap E costs exactly 250€ delivered here. Efranos ( and other cheapo guts ) do get bashed on TB frequently, but my experience isn`t like that all. These do sound great and play easy, especially arco. With that in mind, I know what to expect and how to deal with the outcome with plain guts and how completely different they are when compared to standard modern strings. I wouldn`t recommend the cheap end guts for a gut beginner anymore. If Pistoys, Dlugoleckis or Chorda C.H`s doesn`t make it clear what it is about these strings, the Efranos wouldn`t be anything but more of a PITY to get rid off. That`s how my Efrano plain E is, I didn`t jump to the deepest end and try enough with it because all of it would have been too much.

For me, guts are not a option anymore, they`re the default. One needs to hear the DB like that, and be obsessive enough to overcome the obstacles and widen the landscape. That`s how I hear the instrument, that`s my expectation of the tone of DB, what I expect to hear when I pick up one, what I want to hear in the mix. Feel is another important factor, no Spirocore, Obligato or Velvet can deliver that much sound, be as dynamical and colourful while beeing weather-light to play. You can play on guts very quiet and still deliver a room filling bass-y tone in all registers. Or you can get to the other end of the spectrum, with the help of your own frequency zone in the mix and a physical setup that doesn`t kill you even when extreme. That`s one thing, when you have room under the strings you have room for variation on your right hand, you have options for the outcome. I don`t think a Spiro red G at 5 mm`s would be like that, for me at least. This comes from someone who would absolutely be exclusively using a full set of Spiro weichs if guts were not the end-all of it.

Amped tone is another thing. If you want your DB sound like bass quitar, plug your Spiro stringed bass with a piezo to any bass amp. If you want the same sounding like double bass, string it with guts. My experience is that great amped Spirocore DB tone comes only with a mic, or in mix with the piezo. With Spiros you need the grace felix, tonedexter, cable made out of unicorns pubic hair, 4000 on the amp and a red carpet to walk all this stuff on. Then, any pile of s**t that can be called a bass amp will do just fine with guts, if it can take the DB in the first place. That`s my experience and YMMV :)

It's good to know where you stand and to stand by what you know. I remember when I was first starting out on bass and I could hear nothing else but gut. Blanton, Haden, Ware, Jones, Mingus, Garrison, early Peacock. That was the bass to me. Every time I heard the slightest mwah of sustain I would recoil. Carter? No way. Even Ray turned me off. Gomez? Only on guts. I simply hated the sound of steels. All the old guys thought I was crazy to be using guts. It kind of amused them, they would play them and say "hey, those sound pretty good". But they were Spiro guys through and through. All the pros, Spiro reds. I argued my case and they nodded and grinned. I just couldn't figure it. If these guys were such amazing players, with such incredible instruments why were they denying themselves? A funny thing happened on the way to middle-age. I became one of them. I started to genuinely enjoy the sound of the Spiros, including, GASP, the sustain, the growl...even (hail Mary full of grace) the SWELL. I used to hate the swell. You play a note and it gets louder after a moment, *** is that? Decay was my thing, a blunt front end and a quick decay. I think the real change came after I started to back a lot of great singers. Longer notes, and less of them, better supported the harmony. I became more and more interested in note durations, subdividing not just with a pizzed note but various note length considerations. I started to experiment with an entirely different spectrum, a kind of new batch of paints. As I started to draw more tones out of the notes people started to respond differently to my playing. I think it was due to the fact that I wasn't so much about percussion anymore and paying more attention to getting the most out of individual notes. Rather suddenly, that started to inform my choices. I even started to mess with vibrato, something I would have despised twenty years ago. Of course, I still find new percussion ideas, I'll always be a drummer first, but I don't find it difficult to shorten notes and produce all the thud a person could want, even on steels. But I can't do the other way around and get those new colors I've found, and use a lot, on guts. I recently played a cut from Bill Evans Trio 64 album for a bass player friend with Gary Peacock on half steel half gut. It is some of my favorite playing on any recording from any bass player. It is totally different than my concept but it astounds me how musical it is. My friend surprised me by saying "it doesnt even sound like a bass". What exactly does that mean anymore? Firstly, it sounds everything like a bass, deep, round, warm, woody. Secondly I realize that "sounding like a bass" means so much less to me than it once did, in that, I don't have a single ideal for a bass sound anymore. Edgar, Haden, Dixon, Carter, Garcia Fons, Ezra, Les Claypool, Leandre, whomever. I just like individuals, musicians, personal statements. I'm more delighted than repelled by something that doesn't sound like my idea of what a double bass should sound like. I mean, I've heard a lot of great bass over the decades. There is plenty of room for new sounds, new concepts. How my buddy thought that Gary Peacock didn't sound like a bass is beyond me, but I realized how far I've come from my initial Blanton or nothing stance. I think my younger self might hate my older self. There's the adage of becoming what you hate. But change is change and remaining open to any kind of expression on any instrument is my default setting at this point. Play what moves you, and, if you need to make a change, make a change. More and more I realize that this is all about your personal journey with music...big gigs come and go, audiences shrink, swell, and shrink again. Find meaning in your playing and sound. End of story.
 
.... and remaining open to any kind of expression on any instrument is my default setting at this point. Play what moves you, and, if you need to make a change, make a change. More and more I realize that this is all about your personal journey with music...big gigs come and go, audiences shrink, swell, and shrink again. Find meaning in your playing and sound. End of story.
Well Amen and Hallelujah! Thanks for putting it so clearly Jason.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Reiska


plain gut D and G , copper wound red diamond beef gut E and A. not bad sustain... not spiro sustain but some i think, unless im just so far gone down the rabbit hole that i cant tell anymore...


They say "take some breaths in your solo, as a singer would"...they never said "cough occasionally to make it more human sounding"...haha. Sounds beautiful. As always, our sound is really all in the fingers (and arm, shoulder, back, body, all the way to the feet)
 
Just to stay current I brought the guts out and put them on my American Standard because I am planning on recording some somewhat percussive slappish solo pieces in the near future and the gut really have this wispy cora quality that gives the music a unique voice. I took the bass out for a gig last night and found that the strings really work well for certain things, big warm notes that envelope the singer or soloist. They also give you a broad palette of percussive options and sound glorious up high. I did a blues/zydeco record in Louisiana last week on the fender jazz which led me into listening to some early Muddy Waters with Crawford on bass. Those recordings would not have worked if he was playing steel strings. It's the tubbiness combined with the sharp attack of the pluck that work so well backing the spacious guitar playing. I did miss some focus to the notes occasionally last night but it was worth the trade-off in that setting. So I guess the deal is to have two basses, one strung with gut, the other spiros and you can decide which is best for each setting.
 
I'm doing the two bass thing right now too. Ply with Evah Slap Guts and my carved bass with 3/4 Spiro Purps. I just jacked my action way up on the spiro bass (7.5mm g-1cm e) after a string of gigs and jam sessions on it (not to mention a really good lesson, never forget how good an investment a lesson is!). I'm curious to see what Ill sound like on the gut bass now that my steel chops feel so good...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jmilitsc
I'm doing the two bass thing right now too. Ply with Evah Slap Guts and my carved bass with 3/4 Spiro Purps. I just jacked my action way up on the spiro bass (7.5mm g-1cm e) after a string of gigs and jam sessions on it (not to mention a really good lesson, never forget how good an investment a lesson is!). I'm curious to see what Ill sound like on the gut bass now that my steel chops feel so good...

Ditto, very fortunate to have two great basses with really distinct setups and sounds - carved with Spiro weichs and Kay with plain Dlugolecki’s. Love em both and haven’t touched the steels in over a month, been focusing heavily on learning the guts. Now I miss the other bass.... what a great “problem” to have!
 
I just got a UA Apollo twin Quad and a Neumann TLM103 and I'm experimenting trying to replicate my favorite bass sounds on record. Charlie Hadens two solo records are some of my favorite bass recordings ever made. I have had a very interesting time trying to replicate his sound, watching videos, messing with my bass set up, changing mic positions etc. Of course he has a Vuillaume and I'm doing it with an American Standard. He has wound gut (very important to his sound, surprisingly) and I have raw guts. But it's been very educational trying to get at what I love so much about those recordings. On the Italian I'm approaching the recorded sound of Edgar Meyer. Fascinating to realize how much, and what type of reverb is on those records.
 
I just got a UA Apollo twin Quad and a Neumann TLM103 and I'm experimenting trying to replicate my favorite bass sounds on record. Charlie Hadens two solo records are some of my favorite bass recordings ever made. I have had a very interesting time trying to replicate his sound, watching videos, messing with my bass set up, changing mic positions etc. Of course he has a Vuillaume and I'm doing it with an American Standard. He has wound gut (very important to his sound, surprisingly) and I have raw guts. But it's been very educational trying to get at what I love so much about those recordings. On the Italian I'm approaching the recorded sound of Edgar Meyer. Fascinating to realize how much, and what type of reverb is on those records.

Maybe nylon gut is in your future...
 
I have to say I have never heard of Charlie playing a Pollmann. My understanding of those records is that they were the result of a major shift in his life, he kicked drugs, got married and purchased the Vuillaume. Prior to that I thought he was still playing a Prescott which I've seen at David Gage in NYC. I know that he purchased a French bass, perhaps a Cune, that I also played at Gage and later a John Auray violin cornered bass when he deemed the Vuillaume was becoming too fragile and airlines were imposing stricter rules for flying with basses. These recordings are on the Horizon label and are two of my favorite bass records in existence. I suppose the immense tone, the clarity, the restless underpinning and the idiosyncratic figures make this a hyper-exposed example of the music of Charlie Haden. I've played this for some bass player and they felt nothing, ha. To me it is pure poetry. It would appear this is the same sound and era of the recording...on the Vuillaume...
 
Last edited:

Latest posts