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Double Bass GUTS ARE SO MUCH FUN!!!
- Thread starter Marc Piane
- Start date
I’ve been playing an all unwound gut set for a few months now. I really like the tone— Gamut with a Lenzner A. This past Saturday, they asked me to bow a few sections of songs and so I took the bass with wound guts— OliDoxa. I was really surprised that the wound guts were much harder on my hands. I mean, the tone is still great on my hybrid; big and punchy. Plus, those strings bow really well. Both are great and have their place, but I prefer the unwound guts for tone and playability.
I'll be very interested in your thoughts about these strings since you've played real guts... I started with a complete set of the SBW Deluxe Dirty Gut about 18 months ago, using the medium tension strings. I have been using a mixed string set for a year now, but have continued using the original SBW Deluxe D and G.
I'd observe that on my bass the SBW strings bow remarkably well and sound excellent amped for pizz/slap and arco. Acoustically for pizz/slap I had trouble cutting through with the E and A which is why I later went with a mixed set.
But I have no real gut experience on my own bass and will value your shared experiences, since I do expect to try real gut D and G strings sometime in the next few years.
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Moro Juusokasperi, I had a Lyon G and Pistoy D. I preferred Chordas. I tried both, Regular and CH. Chordas have more tension and a stronger sound exept for the regular D. There I agree with (meidän) Reiska - CH Chorda is better, regular is too fat.
Povl, all the tension specs are in the Pirastro web site.
Povl, all the tension specs are in the Pirastro web site.
Oops, sorry Povl, only the regular Chorda specs were in Pirastro`s site.
The Lyon G is more flexible and has more air and singiness to the sound, as you’d expect.
The Chorda Carlos G is raw power.
The Chorda Carlos G is raw power.
I`ve understood that G and A are the same gauge in both reqular Chordas and CH, D and E would be smaller diameter in CH edition. Is this correct?
That’s my understanding. I’ve never tried the regulars.
Can anyone tell me about Labella Gut strings and Sweetone gut strings? Don't know much about them. Anyone serious use these back in the day?
That ain’t necessarily bad. I have a LaBella G on with Clef plains. The LaBella is a lot more stable in summer.
Sam, I bought a couple of NOS LaBella G strings and have one of them on a bass. Nothing at all wrong with it. Very much like Lenzner.
Can't speak to Sweetone or any LaBella gut other than G.
So I am a bit preoccupied with the fact that plain guts are in fact all core. So the thicker strings are less elastic than the thinner. So where my intuitive, old habit might be to pluck the lower strings closer to the end of the fingerboard, to get some "oomph", it is if anything opposite. I need to pluck the G and D closer to the end to get som weight to the sound, and the A further up, for it not to feel too "stiff".
Basically, moving your plucking hand around a lot is not a good idea. But the realisation might help a bit in itself.
The solution is ofcourse to play wound strings with a similar thickness core. But I don't think I will ever get around to a all wound gut set. Or at least play with wound A and E, to minimize the problem. For instance the Chorda Carlos set, where the thinner D and E also work in that direction. Or experiment with something like SB dirty gut. Or forgettaboutit and practice.
You might guess from my nerdiness, that I do not make my living playing the bass..
Basically, moving your plucking hand around a lot is not a good idea. But the realisation might help a bit in itself.
The solution is ofcourse to play wound strings with a similar thickness core. But I don't think I will ever get around to a all wound gut set. Or at least play with wound A and E, to minimize the problem. For instance the Chorda Carlos set, where the thinner D and E also work in that direction. Or experiment with something like SB dirty gut. Or forgettaboutit and practice.
You might guess from my nerdiness, that I do not make my living playing the bass..
When I was playing all EADG Dirty Guts in my first 6 months of playing, slap was my primary method and the note part of slap was produced by pulling the note string freehand with all four fingers -- which works for slap, but it is not a very strong pizz stroke.
By the time I had moved to a different E and A (SilverSlaps), I had also begun doing a 2-finger (index, 2nd) non-slap pizz with a thumb anchor on the bass side of the fingerboard, and I was intentionally pulling the string to the fingerboard in the pizz stroke, which produces a very strong, almost percussive, yet very fast pizz stroke.
I'm still doing this today when I'm not slapping. I have found that this pizz method is extremely nimble, yet it creates remarkable volume and clarity of note, better than anything I had tried before, and it really made this mixed SilverSlap/Dirty-Gut set come alive... I've tried it with other peoples' basses, some with guts, and it also has worked very nicely with them.
In the future when I'm trying out guts on my bass, this pizz method will be the first thing I'll try, as I've seen and heard the difference that it makes.
Povl - how is this different from bowing technique, where we are taught to treat each string differently? My teacher tells me to bow the G string closer to the bridge and the E string farther from the bridge. And, when I think about it, my plucking position does change even with steel strings.
I`m messing with my setup, stance and pizz technique quite a bit again because I`ve been hurting way too much lately. I have a chronic issue with my right rotator system, the muscles of my upper back and neck tightens up and starts to hurt. Part of the deal is my tad too big bass, I have to reach for the upper strings a bit and this takes my right shoulder too much off the line. I switched to Spiro weich EA and lowered the strings to medium height ( G 8mm, D 9,5mm, A 10mm E 10,5mm ). With spiros on the bottom I`m able to take it a bit easier with my right hand and the plucking area isn`t as critical as with low tension bottom strings. I really like the sound I`m getting when plucking some 2 inches above the end of the fingerboard, this is in the money register. When going higher positions on the guts I need to go to the end of the board, otherwise they crap out when I`m digging in. Anyway, when plucking slightly higher I get more low end to the tone, while there`s still a strong percussive front end to the note.
Btw, Spiro weichs and Chordas CH blend beautifully, both in tone and feel. I like the weichs a lot more than solos, there`s non of that mwahhy fretless thing going on that is hard to control with solos, YMMV off course. Weichs and Chordas are two very different voices that enhance each other, and it`s sorta classic sounding combo. Very loud too!
Btw, Spiro weichs and Chordas CH blend beautifully, both in tone and feel. I like the weichs a lot more than solos, there`s non of that mwahhy fretless thing going on that is hard to control with solos, YMMV off course. Weichs and Chordas are two very different voices that enhance each other, and it`s sorta classic sounding combo. Very loud too!
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I can't recall your stance off the top of my head, but I'll bet the answer you seek is somewhere there.
I have a partially torn left rotator and scar tissue on the biceps tendon on the same side from non bass playing causes. Recently, they have both been acting up, and since I turn 55 this coming month, I was starting to worry that winter was coming a bit early. So in daily practice, I was able to make some simple posture and technique adjustments that alleviated both pains. Honestly, these were things that I feel I should have caught far earlier, or at least should have been more obvious. But, all's well that ends well.
There are two aspects to posture, and I had forgotten one of them:
1) The angle of the bass in relation to the body
2) and angle of the body in relation to the bass
My biggest recurring technical mistake is forgetting that they are two separate issues and not one big issue. I was focusing on the first and forgetting the second, causing my left arm to be in a position to try to exert force from an unnatural angle by under-extending at the elbow. The issue you describe sounds like the opposite, but I bet there's a simple posture fix that will help. Here's hoping you find it!
Good observation. And I feel that my realisation might help me: 1. I need to pluck D and G closer to the end, to get weight in the sound, and that does not make them feel too stiff. 2. Having a bit of trouble "digging in" on the A and E is not me not digging hard enough, but a character of the string, when plucked low.
That said, I think it is natural to search for a uniform feel across strings. Which plain guts give you in ONE respect. You have to pick your fights/priorities..
Untill a major repair/new bridge a couple of years ago, I was playing with my bridge placed a bit north of its intended place. The bass felt and sounded fine. Since the repair, I stubbornly keep the bridge aligned "properly". But do feel that I perhaps need to stretch a bit to finger fx a Bb octave on the A and G. The string length is a bit longish 106 cms for a 3/4..
