Guys Who Only Play Covers: What Happened?

[socialleper]

Brad, you're digging yourself a hole here. It was prettyy clear from his post that he was talking about downloading a recording via torrent and tabs via Google and using them both to learn the song. When he says "no learning by ear," he meant that the tabs make it unnecessary to pull the parts off the record only by ear.

This is what I'm saying. The dude is a troll and I'm done with him. Thanks for the back up.

 

[BWB]

I

My day job pays my bills. In addition, because I have a day job, I am not concerned about the money, which gives me MORE freedom to play original music.

Anyway, this thread has digressed significantly. I'd be more interested on hearing about the TRANSITIONS original music players had to cover bands after a certain point in their lives and musical careers.

Basically after 3 years of what seemed like one endless van trip around the mid-west, south, and east coast I woke up to the fact that I because bass playing had become a JOB, I was sick of the whole thing.

I was really into the music we were playing and creating, but I was not really into being with the same 4 or 5 people in a van for years on end, while I was constantly scrabbling to pay bills, all my friends had drifted off ...

The transition was more of an abrupt break - I decided I wanted to be home, and not have bass playing be a job.

Quit the original project I'd been with for years, took about 6 months off from bass playing, moved to Atlanta, got a kind of crappy full-time job to pay the bills and figured I'd just kind of see what would happen bass playing wise (1994 - I was 26 years old at this point and had been playing original music almost exclusively for the previous 8 years). Ended up as the bass player for a 7 piece soul cover band that had a good following in ATL and who didn't want to play any road gigs, and one gig started leading to another with other cover bands. I vowed I was going to work full-time and jump start some kind of career and not let making $$ as a bass player be a job so I could enjoy it (though admittedly I did like the extra $$).

As time passed, I gave a **** less and less about proving to myself or anyone else I was as good a bass player and could write as good or better material than other people - I knew I could do it, but I didn't care. But I like to get on stage and play, and cover gigs are easy to get, so was an easy route to take.

The only thing I've done different is my band mates and I go against the grain of "successful cover bands" by playing what we want to play. The rule in our band is that we play music that amuses US, which is as close to original as I can get, I suppose. The irony is that we get gigs lined up with no problem because club owners keep telling us a version of "you guys really don't sound like anyone else around here ..." which is true, we're a cover band ... but we don't.

 

[socialleper]

Sure. Apologies for being terse was posting from my phone with one eye on the TV last night
First you have to understand that I'm not merely speaking about learning a bassline. I'm speaking about learning a bassline and playing it with the rest of the band in a way that makes it dynamic and enjoyable for your audience.

I absolutely agree with you that the tools for learning songs are better now. MP3 players and software to slow songs down make it easier to hear what's going on.

But not to the point where it's brainless work for anything more complicated than a I-IV-V quarter note groove. And tabs, from my admittedly limited experience, don't really help a whole lot since many of the ones I've seen range from just usable to complete POS. And even when the writer gets most of the notes right the lack of rhythm information, which is at least half the job if not more for syncopated rhythms, is left to you to figure out.

So I don't agree that the technology and availability of tab has made life easier for cover players.

And then there's whole aspect of actually getting the song to a performance ready state. It's more than just making sure everyone knows the changes and can start and stop at the same time. There's dynamics to consider - there's nothing worse than a band that plays an entire song at the same volume, it's like listening to someone recite Shakespeare in a monotone. There's making sure the song grooves. There's vocal harmonies to be considered (my band has four vocalists and does lots of 3 and 4 part hamonies). There's considering where to fit it into the set list and how to segue from the previous and into the next song.

Case in point - one of the tunes we're currently working on is "Aeroplane" by Red Hot Chili Peppers. I spent about 4 hours learning the line - and in this case I was working from an accurate transcription - and getting it up to speed (admittedly I'm a crappy slapper so that had something to do with it) and now we've worked on it for 4 rehearsals at about an hour a clip and it's almost to the point where it's performance ready. And it's not an overly difficult tune.

We could probably have gotten away with less work because as you say most audience members won't notice but I (we) will.

I'm not trying to get all up in your face either; no problem.

Aeroplane is a pretty tough song. That's the kind of thing that will take you a while. When I was working on Godhead's Lament by Opeth, it definitely took me a while to get it straight. But when I tried Hey Joe, Another One Bites the Dust or Lacuna Coil's version of Enjoy the Silence it was pretty easy. That's why I said some songs are easier than others. I don't care for RHCP, but I won't talk smack about Flea's ability to play, the guys has skills. I think we are both on the same page that a more difficult song will take more time.

Internet tabs are infamously bad, so you have to be careful. I use them as a guideline so I know where to start. I don't have the ability to hear a note and say "That's an A" so I little help makes it easier. Where the MP3 comes in is listening to it over and over so I can pick out the parts that the tabs are missing or just plain wrong. So I am using my ear, but with a lot of cheating.

If doing covers was my thing, I could see how the ability to get any piece of music on demand, and listening to it, or parts, over and over again, without having to go find it or buy it (not that there are record stores to buy music at anymore anyway), would be easier. Being able to find tabs or even PDF sheet music on the web would also make it easier. Having these tools available to a potential cover band, I think, would make the process faster. That's all I'm saying.

 

[socialleper]

Basically after 3 years of what seemed like one endless van trip around the mid-west, south, and east coast I woke up to the fact that I because bass playing had become a JOB, I was sick of the whole thing.

I was really into the music we were playing and creating, but I was not really into being with the same 4 or 5 people in a van for years on end, while I was constantly scrabbling to pay bills, all my friends had drifted off ...

The transition was more of an abrupt break - I decided I wanted to be home, and not have bass playing be a job.

Quit the original project I'd been with for years, took about 6 months off from bass playing, moved to Atlanta, got a kind of crappy full-time job to pay the bills and figured I'd just kind of see what would happen bass playing wise (1994 - I was 26 years old at this point and had been playing original music almost exclusively for the previous 8 years). Ended up as the bass player for a 7 piece soul cover band that had a good following in ATL and who didn't want to play any road gigs, and one gig started leading to another with other cover bands. I vowed I was going to work full-time and jump start some kind of career and not let making $$ as a bass player be a job so I could enjoy it (though admittedly I did like the extra $$).

As time passed, I gave a **** less and less about proving to myself or anyone else I was as good a bass player and could write as good or better material than other people - I knew I could do it, but I didn't care. But I like to get on stage and play, and cover gigs are easy to get, so was an easy route to take.

The only thing I've done different is my band mates and I go against the grain of "successful cover bands" by playing what we want to play. The rule in our band is that we play music that amuses US, which is as close to original as I can get, I suppose. The irony is that we get gigs lined up with no problem because club owners keep telling us a version of "you guys really don't sound like anyone else around here ..." which is true, we're a cover band ... but we don't.

Cool story; thanks for sharing. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the experience of a lot of musicians was the same. Covers offer a way to play, have a crowd enjoy your set, and get paid.
Playing originals is a harder road that has the potential to make you a lot of money, but unfortunately the odds of being a band that gets signed, makes a few records, and actually gets somewhere is almost like winning the lottery. I've seen really good bands not get picked up because they just weren't in the right place at the right time. I've also seen signed bands have to tour almost nonstop because they play what they like, but what they like is such a small market that they are barely breaking even.
You can also go the route of the session or touring musician that is a hired gun. You play, you get paid, but you will never get an ounce of recognition from fans. You're just the guy on the record or on the dark part of the stage.

 

[Brad Johnson]

This is what I'm saying. The dude is a troll and I'm done with him. Thanks for the back up.

And you're both wrong. So of course I must be a troll for pointing out what a ridiculous claim you made.

 

[portlandguy]

makin cash!

 

[Brad Johnson]

I'm not trying to get all up in your face either; no problem.

Aeroplane is a pretty tough song. That's the kind of thing that will take you a while. When I was working on Godhead's Lament by Opeth, it definitely took me a while to get it straight. But when I tried Hey Joe, Another One Bites the Dust or Lacuna Coil's version of Enjoy the Silence it was pretty easy. That's why I said some songs are easier than others. I don't care for RHCP, but I won't talk smack about Flea's ability to play, the guys has skills. I think we are both on the same page that a more difficult song will take more time.

Internet tabs are infamously bad, so you have to be careful. I use them as a guideline so I know where to start. I don't have the ability to hear a note and say "That's an A" so I little help makes it easier. Where the MP3 comes in is listening to it over and over so I can pick out the parts that the tabs are missing or just plain wrong. So I am using my ear, but with a lot of cheating.

If doing covers was my thing, I could see how the ability to get any piece of music on demand, and listening to it, or parts, over and over again, without having to go find it or buy it (not that there are record stores to buy music at anymore anyway), would be easier. Being able to find tabs or even PDF sheet music on the web would also make it easier. Having these tools available to a potential cover band, I think, would make the process faster. That's all I'm saying.

So ear learning is sometimes still a part of it and the half hour doesn't come close to covering everything that falls under any song.

Guess I was wrong after all. You kids have fun.

 

[boristhespider9]

Basically after 3 years of what seemed like one endless van trip around the mid-west, south, and east coast I woke up to the fact that I because bass playing had become a JOB, I was sick of the whole thing.

I was really into the music we were playing and creating, but I was not really into being with the same 4 or 5 people in a van for years on end, while I was constantly scrabbling to pay bills, all my friends had drifted off ...

The transition was more of an abrupt break - I decided I wanted to be home, and not have bass playing be a job.

Quit the original project I'd been with for years, took about 6 months off from bass playing, moved to Atlanta, got a kind of crappy full-time job to pay the bills and figured I'd just kind of see what would happen bass playing wise (1994 - I was 26 years old at this point and had been playing original music almost exclusively for the previous 8 years). Ended up as the bass player for a 7 piece soul cover band that had a good following in ATL and who didn't want to play any road gigs, and one gig started leading to another with other cover bands. I vowed I was going to work full-time and jump start some kind of career and not let making $$ as a bass player be a job so I could enjoy it (though admittedly I did like the extra $$).

As time passed, I gave a **** less and less about proving to myself or anyone else I was as good a bass player and could write as good or better material than other people - I knew I could do it, but I didn't care. But I like to get on stage and play, and cover gigs are easy to get, so was an easy route to take.

The only thing I've done different is my band mates and I go against the grain of "successful cover bands" by playing what we want to play. The rule in our band is that we play music that amuses US, which is as close to original as I can get, I suppose. The irony is that we get gigs lined up with no problem because club owners keep telling us a version of "you guys really don't sound like anyone else around here ..." which is true, we're a cover band ... but we don't.

Interesting story. After playing originals for so long, were there any covers that made you cringe when you played them? Did you personally ever feel like you "gave up" in any sense by going the cover route or was it just "time"? Also, do you think you had a higher standard in the type of cover band you'd agree to be in due to your experience on the original band scene?

 

[DWBass]

Just an observation here.............I don't understand how some of you play music without being able to hear the notes you're playing!! I learned by ear LONG before learning to read music. Anyways, just an observation.

Carry on..........

 

[phillybass101]

Gentleman, gentlemen. IMO Bss Players are some of the coolest Mofos on the planet so let's not forget this. Far too often we want to speak in absolutes and as far as I can tell in life the only absolutes I face are that I HAVE to pay my taxes or else, and one day I'm going to die. I grew up in the inner city (Philly) and all us cats that got into music did so at frist playing in a cover band before I was even aware of what a cover band was. We were simply emulating the songs by our hero bands and we were judged not only if we could play a song but how well we played it. It was a competition thing like can you get that. Those players who could get that the best, were the best in the neighborhood. There is nothing wrong with playing covers or being in a cover band that I can tell. Some of the best cover bands went on to develoo their own sound and their own LPs. Again, there is nothing wrong with having aspiriations of being a song writer and doing your own thing. If you can do that and that's what you want to do, then that is absolutley fantastic. As you grow and develop as a musician and or song wiiter the reality of the life of a full time musician hits really hard. Some guys make that sacrifice and some don't. My skills are such that I could be a touring pro but for some reason or another I did not make that complete sacrifice and take that seemingly vow of poverty. I went to college ended up with a Masters degree and have a well paying job and can buy any piece of gear I want. I also chose to be a free lance player as I do not dig the grind of being in a cover band that works regulary. I have friends who went to Berklee but for some reason never became stars but do work as full time musicians. Some of them still ive at home with htier mothers. They do not have the responsisbilities I have and are free to pursue their passion. Neither path is is the only path. Their are no absolutes. I don't condemn the life of a full time musician but I can't afford to live off of $100 gigs at home and a tour here and there. I do not however discount the sacrifice my friends have made and am often jealous that I did not choose their path. I grew up the late 60's, 70's and 80's. My best learning tool besides my weekly lessons were the radioi and the record player. Later came 8 tarck tapes and cassettes. Sheet music for my favorte funk bands was few and far between. Therefore due to the sheer amount of time practicing with my ear, I developed quita an ear. My wife swears I can play anything I hear. In todays time, there are many training aids to help the process go a lot quicker. I too now learn from a combination of listening to a song , reading the lead sheet and or chord chart etc. This really helps expedite the process when you play with a singer who wants the change the key. You actually learn how to change the lead shet or chrord charts accordingly which makes transposing the key for the whole group to go faster. Not everyone who picks up an instrument has as a goal at first the desire to write their own or play their own music. This came for me much later in life. I never was aware of the the argument about COVER Bands, until I went away to college and joined a rock group. Never before had this becaome an issue in any band that I was in before. Hate to be cliche but it is different strokes for different folks. I recently played a smooth jazz show with a female saxaphone artist who wanted me to come up with one of my own grooves to play for the show. We didn;t even rehearse it. I sent them the chords changes in an email the day before the gig and we just winged it. It was an orginal of mine I started writing as a latin based tume way back in 1991. I changed it to a funk shuffle. The leader recorded the show and My tune is one of the best in the show. Liltle did I know that I may have writing skills. This just sort of happened with no drive, or intent on my part. Now we're taliking about developing it into a real song that has great potential. I say this to say we all come from all walks of life, different cultural backgrounds and because of this there are no absolutes that work as a cookie cutter solution and to each his own. Remember we're bass players even if we write songs, use our ears, tab, read sheet music or not. We are some of the coolest people on the planet. We can argue but let's not fight. Guys of today, you do have more learning tools than guys may age ever had. Like Vicotr wooten says, don;t learn how to play with your eyes use your ears. Videos, tab, lead sheets, chord charts are all necessary I beleive but there is nothing as equally important as having a great ear. A great ear is just more than hearing something and spitting it back out. There is feel, tension, relief, syncopation, that percolating stuff we bassist can do etc etc. Old school meets new school on TB so lets TB not shout at each other.

 

[georgiagoodie]

OP,
I disagree with your premise.
One can still make one's music while playing "covers".
I play both "covers" and originals. Sure, I am proud of my original tunes, and enjoy playing them very much. However, I do not play them with any more or less musicality than I do "covers".
As you pointed out, some of the greatest musicians of all time have primarily played "covers". Almost ALL Classical musicians, a whole bunch of jazz musicians, studio session players, Musical pit musicians, etc. almost always play "covers".
Think about it.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Just an observation here.............I don't understand how some of you play music without being able to hear the notes you're playing!! I learned by ear LONG before learning to read music. Anyways, just an observation.

Carry on..........

You don't want to open that can of worms, Dave.

 

[SactoBass]

Did the crowd reaction sour you on writing and playing originals? Why "thank goodness"; was there something about the process you didn't like?

It wasn't the process. It was the music. I get more joy from playing covers. It's kinda like asking me why shrimp is my favorite food......I don't know why.....all I know is that it's what I prefer. Internal brain wiring, I guess.

 

[jerry]

Seems like one of those discussions you have when your 16 and haven't had to make a living yet, I wish the original poster would have put his age, to see how serious he is.

 

[DWBass]

Seems like one of those discussions you have when your 16 and haven't had to make a living yet, I wish the original poster would have put his age, to see how serious he is.

I thought I saw he posted that was middle aged which makes the OP kinda odd. He's had a long time to think about the question. I'm still befuddled with the question. Why would a bass/bassist be singled out from all the different instruments in this world??

 

[boristhespider9]

Seems like one of those discussions you have when your 16 and haven't had to make a living yet, I wish the original poster would have put his age, to see how serious he is.

Are you guys making "real" livings playing covers? Enough to pay your bills and save some money too? Can you support a family with it? It seems hard to believe unless you're in one of the absolute top wedding/corporate bands in a major city being paid 15-20k an event.

 

[SactoBass]

I thought I saw he posted that was middle aged which makes the OP kinda odd. He's had a long time to think about the question. I'm still befuddled with the question. Why would a bass/bassist be singled out from all the different instruments in this world??

Good question, DW!

My question is, what on Earth caused the OP to think that something must have "happened" that caused us cover song players to "give up our dream?" He somehow oddly has himself convinced that every single bass player picked up the bass with the intent of being a song writer!! What the he!! kind of thinking is that????

That's why I had too much fun posting #183. It shows how ridiculous his premise is. Hopefully this thread will open up his mind a bit and help him realize that we each have our own interests, and those interests may be 180 degrees out of phase from his interests. Imagine that, huh?

 

[theduke1]

Most Song writers are composers who use a piano. Anyone who ever played a musial will tell you most bass parts in a musical are written for left hand piano. Case in point, I have played the musical RENT twice and in the song Santa Fe I had to write my own bass line because I could not play what was written. Both times it got rave reviews from cast, crew, and director.
So not every bassplayer wants to compose and not all composers play.
My question is, why does one have to be right and one wrong? Come on Man!
Love & Peace Always!

 

[bassinplace]

I aspire to be a songwriter. Haven't really tried to write too much as of yet, however. Why? Because I'm first interested in learning how music is made by listening to and playing what's already been made. I'm finding that alone is great fun, a very rich and rewarding educational experience. Once I feel well enough versed in it that I'm confident enough to start putting my own ideas down on record, I will. No matter what I'm doing though, I'm having a lot of fun doing it and getting to express myself in a way that no other language can and sharing it with others. At the end of the day, isn't that what it's all about, whether you're composing or playing?

 

[lfmn16]

My question is, why does one have to be right and one wrong? Come on Man!

Because there is a contingent on talk bass that always gets their panties in a knot if others don't want to do it their way.