Höfner basses and dead spots

[TortCult]

One of my favorite basses of all time is the Höfner violin bass. Only reason I don't have one is that they seamingly all have terrible dead spots on the E or A string (or both), in fact every Höfner bass I've tried out had at least one terrible dead spot in the 'money zone', with exception of a CT Club bass, which had a sustain block, separating both halfs of the body (didn't really have the classic Höfner sound).

I contacted one of the large dealers here in Germany, asking them, if it's possible to get a violin bass without dead spots on the E/A string and they replied:
"The violin bass is a retro-style instrument and always has several very pronounced dead spots (...) This not only applies to basses of the Ignition or Contemporary series but also to the handmade german violin basses."

When I look at the reviews of these intruments, no one really seems to complain about dead spots. I'd be pretty disappointed, paying 2.000+ bucks for a handmade violin bass and having to deal with a dead spot on the 5th fret of the E-string. Maybe I'm just fussy, who knows.

What's your experience with violin-style basses (not only from Höfner) and their dead spots?

 

[Gilmourisgod]

If you are a looking for a bright, sustaining sound, none of the Hofners or their clones are going to deliver that, the tubby thump is what they do. I like that tone, and it works great for some styles, but $2k for a German Horner is insane. Recall that these were considered cheap basses until Mecca bought one, which makes that Hofner logo an incredibly expensive piece of plastic. The Epiphone Viola clones have a continuous neck block, so they sound more like a traditional solid body. My son has a Jay Turser violin bass that looks nicer and plays at least as well as the mid-price Hofners, but it's kind of one big dead spot, so to speak, inherent to the design.

 

[mongo2]

That's interesting. For years I used the Ignition Violin, Ignition Club, HCT Galaxie SS and HCT President hollowbody. I've not noticed any egregious deadspots on any of them. The evenness of their response is one of my main reasons for using them. I used nylon tapes on all of them for the less bright sound I like which may make the response seem more even.

 

[TortCult]

If you are a looking for a bright, sustaining sound, none of the Hofners or their clones are going to deliver that, the tubby thump is what they do.

Their thumpiness combined with the ultra light weight is the main reason, why I really like them. I play reggae mostly, so no need for any brightness or sustain.

$2k for a German Horner is insane. Recall that these were considered cheap basses until Mecca bought one, which makes that Hofner logo an incredibly expensive piece of plastic.

True, there is no way the price difference between the cheaper models and the german ones can be justified. The pickups in the Contemporary series basses and the german ones are actually the same. Pretty much the only difference is, the german ones are made in germany by germans, the chinese in china by chinese.
Well and nitro, of course.

it's kind of one big dead spot, so to speak, inherent to the design.

Not sure if you know, what is referred to as "dead spot". A dead spot occurs, when the bass resonates at the same frequency as a given note and pretty much swallows it up. Depending on how bad the dead spot is, that note can be almost inaudible or at least have little to no fundamental. With Fender style basses there's usually one between the 5th and 7th fret on the G-string.

The evenness of their response is one of my main reasons for using them. I used nylon tapes on all of them for the less bright sound I like which may make the response seem more even.

That's really interesting. In my experience flats actually make dead spots stand out more, because they emphasize the fundamental of the note. Consider yourself very lucky!

 

[mongo2]

That's really interesting. In my experience flats actually make dead spots stand out more, because they emphasize the fundamental of the note. Consider yourself very lucky!

Flats and nylon tapes are very different types of strings. I stopped using flats due to their tendency to go dead quickly for me. I find the nylon tapes I use are much less likely to do that. Out of curiosity I just tried my Club bass and checked closely for any deadspots. I found none.

 

[TortCult]

Out of curiosity I just tried my Club bass and checked closely for any deadspots. I found none.

Is it a ignition club bass? Tried out two of those and they both had the exact same dead spot (5th fret E-String and open A). Lucky you

 

[moon-dog]

Acoustic Instruments like Guitars or Hofner Basses all do have ´weaker spots`, but i wouldnt call them "dead spots" in most cases. You have given the explanation by yourself already.

Prices for a German made Violin Bass are absolutely not "insane" imho. You have to pay the same for a Ric or almost the same for a Fender Original... .

 

[TortCult]

Acoustic Instruments like Guitars or Hofner Basses all do have ´weaker spots`, but i wouldnt call them "dead spots" in most cases.

In my experience their dead spots are acutally much worse, than what you find on any other kind of bass.

Prices for a German made Violin Bass are absolutely not "insane" imho. You have to pay the same for a Ric or almost the same for a Fender Original... .

They used to be pretty cheap back in the day. Some of my favorite reggae bass players like Aston Barrett, Robbie Shakespeare and Earl Walker actually started out on Hofner violins, before they moved on to the more expensive Fender J's and P's. Only after the whole beatle thing their price went up.

 

[mongo2]

Is it a ignition club bass? Tried out two of those and they both had the exact same dead spot (5th fret E-String and open A). Lucky you

Ignition Cub Bass. I just checked those specific locations again, definitely no dead spot there. What kind/brand of strings are you using?

 

[moon-dog]

In my experience their dead spots are acutally much worse, than what you find on any other kind of bass.

Than any other kind of hollow Bass?

Regarding prices.. it doesnt matter if they were relatively cheap almost 60 years ago in Germany. Maybe they were cheaper than imports from the US these days. But times have changed.

If you think its not worth it, dont buy one.

 

[TortCult]

Ignition Cub Bass. I just checked those specific locations again, definitely no dead spot there. What kind/brand of strings are you using?

My favorite strings are Pyramid Gold flats and TI flats. But I don't actually have a Höfner right now.
I used to have an Ignition violin, but sold it to someone who didn't care for the massive dead spot it had

Than any other kind of hollow Bass?

I've tried out a Guild Starfire, it had none and I also own a cheap acoustic bass, which has no dead spots except for the 7th fret on the G string.

If you think its not worth it, dont buy one.

I'd actually be happy with one of the cheapest models, if it had no dead spot. Of course there's always someone who is willing to pay that kind of price to get an "original".

 

[Ekulati]

with exception of a CT Club bass, which had a sustain block, separating both halfs of the body (didn't really have the classic Höfner sound).

Disagree. I must come to the defense of the CT. I have the Violin, not the Club, and sure, perhaps isolated, under ideal conditions, one might be able to tell the difference between that and the German models, but in real life, in a mix, and with the right touch and EQ, I have no problem getting the classic sound out of it. (It does of course have the German staple pickups, unlike all the cheap ones, Icon, Ignition, etc.).

Now, back to the dead spots discussion...

 

[moon-dog]

I've tried out a Guild Starfire, it had none and I also own a cheap acoustic bass, which has no dead spots except for the 7th fret on the G string.


I'd actually be happy with one of the cheapest models, if it had no dead spot. Of course there's always someone who is willing to pay that kind of price to get an "original".

I think you are just not an experienced player and are trolling here a bit. A Guild Starfire is a semi-hollow, not a hollowbody. And this bass had definitely some dead spots or weaker spots as every Instrument has some. You just didnt found them.

 

[mongo2]

My favorite strings are Pyramid Gold flats and TI flats. But I don't actually have a Höfner right now.
I used to have an Ignition violin, but sold it to someone who didn't care for the massive dead spot it had

I tried Pyramid and TI flats as well as Labella flats and nylon tapes for the Beatle bass and none of them worked for me. I have much better results with D'Addario nylon tapes.

 

[TortCult]

@Ekulati
The one I've tried didn't nearly have the same acoustic or amplified sound, as the ignition ones but maybe it just was a lemon.

I think you are just not an experienced player and are trolling here a bit.

You got the first part right.

I have much better results with D'Addario nylon tapes.

I may give them a try, from what I've heard they're mellow but still have enough definition.

My favorite music store is supposed to get a new supply of Hofner basses in ten days.
Maybe I'm gonna find "the one"

 

[mongo2]

I may give them a try, from what I've heard they're mellow but still have enough definition.

If you do want to try the D'Addario nylons, know that I found it necessary to slightly open up and then dress the holes in the E and A string tuning posts sufficiently to fit the strings through. I used short scale strings on my Club and had to shave off about a quarter inch of silk at the nut to properly seat the strings in the nut slots. It takes some work but I find it to be worth it and I rarely have to change strings so it's no biggie for me.

IRRC, I've seen mentioned on TB that medium scale might fit the Violin style bass better. I never tried the medium scale on a Club so I don't know if they work or not.

 

[Ekulati]

@TortCult, so it's been a while since I checked the available models, I've had my CT for several years now. But it looks like not much has changed, except the price of the German ones has continued to rise. They are now c. $2800. The CT (w/German pups), if available, which looks in question, can still be had for c. $800, then the "Ignition" (formerly Icon and a few other names) is still c. $350.

So are you saying that the Ignitions you have tried sound better than a) the CTs, or b) the German models? (Or both?) And as for your store getting some in, if you're thinking the $350 Ignition, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting to find "the one." It's the cheapo version, different neck construction, different pickups and other materials, etc. It's still just a $350 instrument. Not going to be "the one" at that price point. IMHO

 

[Tim Skaggs]

Hollow body basses (including uprights!) will often have a resonant frequency well within the range of the instrument when the instrument tuned to standard pitch. That generally results in a note (or several notes) that don’t sustain well, AKA “dead spot”. It’s just physics, not a voodoo curse or paranormal thing.

Some designs are worse than others, and it seems the classic Hofner Beatle bass design is one one those designs. Since the bass is not really designed to produce bright and long-sustaining notes, the low sustaining notes aren’t as drastically different from other notes as they would be on a bright bass.

Solutions for instruments in-production is the use of different materials (graphite is one) or designs that shift the resonant frequency of the instrument above or below the frequency range the instrument can produce. I don’t know of a 100% solution on a finished instrument. There are lots of things that can help a little; different strings, added weights, etc. It’s the nature of the instrument....

 

[AboutSweetSue]

It’s a feature. One thing I noticed about my Hofner Verythin was the extreme amount of personality the bass has. Very responsive, has a lot of personality.

 

[TortCult]

IRRC, I've seen mentioned on TB that medium scale might fit the Violin style bass better.

Yes, most short scale strings are a tiny bit to short for them, because the string holder is so far behind the bridge.
Thanks for the additional info on the nylons! Fortunately I have no problem with modding my basses, but I'll have to be 100% sure it's a keeper first.

So are you saying that the Ignitions you have tried sound better than a) the CTs, or b) the German models? (Or both?)

Personally I've liked the german and ignition ones better but I've only tried out one CT so far. They mostly offer the cheaper or german ones here.

if you're thinking the $350 Ignition, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting to find "the one." It's the cheapo version, different neck construction, different pickups and other materials, etc. It's still just a $350 instrument. Not going to be "the one" at that price point. IMHO

Yes, you're probably right. I might visit a few different stores and see whether I can find another CT to try out.

It’s the nature of the instrument....

It’s a feature.

The store owner I've contacted about the issue actually also stated "The bass has its own sound and ultimately lives from the sum of its flaws." Hope that makes sense in english.

One thing I noticed about my Hofner Verythin was the extreme amount of personality the bass has. Very responsive, has a lot of personality.

Do you own the short scale version? Never had the chance to try one out. It's a looker for sure!