I almost sing that loud. Mixing at those kind of db levels is nigh impossible without destroying the feel and dynamics of the music if you ask me. Imo 90-100db if properly eq'd is just fine for worship settings.
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Had to mix at 85dB tonight
- Thread starter KingRazor
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Yeah, 100dB would be my limit. Going past 97 can be a bit much even, unless it's mixed really well.
I used to shoot for 94 and I managed to stay in that range most of the time, with the occasional peak at 96 or 97. That's the range I'm most comfortable mixing in.
They aren't hot rods, at least not the kind I've seen before. The hot rods our drummer tried a couple of years ago didn't work for him; they were like a bundle of skinny wooden dowels, but the bundle was pretty thick, and he tore them up trying to play with them. He hated the sound and the feel of them.
These are black and made of some sort of dense plastic or nylon; the bundles are much thinner but they weigh about the same as sticks. They make a much sharper sound than the wooden ones and our drummer says they handle and bounce almost like sticks.
But whatever; no one solution works for everyone. Good luck getting the guitarists to go ampless; I tried it with guitar and absolutely hated it.
- Jan 27, 2010
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The thing to remember is that an spl meter doesn't just measure the music. If the congregation is singing (would be a little odd if they weren't) that contributes to the reading as well. You also have to take into account where you're measuring from, A or C weighted, fast or slow response. I can nail 90 db with an acoustic guitar easily if I'm measuring from a few feet away.
The guitarists don't have a choice. Once we get IEMs, there will no longer be amps on stage.
Yeah, it's in the sound booth in the back of the room, I measure at A weighting with a slow response.
Me too. I'm saving up for a tablet, and once I have it I'm going to find a way to control the board remotely so that during sound check I can mix out in the room.
I think it's mostly a problem of drummers learning to play loud, and never being taught how to play quietly (and/or never taking the time to learn to play quietly). It seems especially difficult for them to play quiet at fast tempos.
Wait a second. There's no reason the guitars have to be ampless. You just need a room and/or an iso-cab behind the stage. Mic the amps in that room. It works great, and it makes the guitars sound much better. That's part of what I meant when I said spending the proper money and doing it right. You really don't want to kill the musical inspiration and experience on the stage. Your musicians will be less motivated to do their best, and not only will the music suffer but so will the worship experience. IEM's done right will sound fantastic. I'd suggest hiring a consultant to come in and help get everything going. In the end it'll make everyone happy.
You're right. I've heard some great musical moments (classical) when it was quiet not loud. Volume doesn't create content or quality. I just appreciate a loud rocking session.
Oh sorry that's what I meant when I said "ampless", I just meant no amps on stage.
We won't be hiring a consultant though, we don't have the budget for that. I mean, it took us years just to be able to afford IEMs.
I hope they are OK with it. If that restriction were being foisted upon me, I'd be looking for another band. But DSFDF.
ggunn, could you find out from the drummer what they where? We really need to bring down the volume of the drummer and he hates hot rods. I would really appreciate it.
Don't feel bad; I've had to deal with all those problems and never in a church setting
I bet you at least have compressors.
The only guitarist on the team that brings his own gear and really shows any preference for his tone is also the one who came up with the idea to go amp-less, so I don't think that'll be an issue.
This, 110%. A lot of churches I've been in run way too much midrange and that just kills your ears and leads to the perception that it's loud.
Scoop some mids, bump up the bottom (not crazy, just a little), and you can literally feel the sound "warm up" and you can push the level a little more before people squawk.
Still... capping it at 85 dB is asking a lot of a soundman especially if there are real drums and amps on stage.
You know, I might have been inclined to agree with you jaywa, but I remember one time when the senior pastor sent someone in from outside the sanctuary to tell me to turn it down. This tells me that it was the bass/kick drum that were too loud for him, since that's really all you can hear outside the sanctuary.
Lately I've been cutting more and more low end out of my mixes. I high pass everything, including the bass and kick (although the high pass is only set to, like 25Hz on the bass, it's not really cutting much if any low end from it) and I've been setting it up almost as high as 300Hz on some channels. The guitar amps have their bass knobs maxed out, you can actually feel bass coming from them in some parts of the room. I am really looking forward to them coming off the stage.
Lately I've been cutting more and more low end out of my mixes. I high pass everything, including the bass and kick (although the high pass is only set to, like 25Hz on the bass, it's not really cutting much if any low end from it) and I've been setting it up almost as high as 300Hz on some channels. The guitar amps have their bass knobs maxed out, you can actually feel bass coming from them in some parts of the room. I am really looking forward to them coming off the stage.
This is a problem. Unless you're Metallica, the guitar amps have no business putting out that much bass. That's the bass guitar's territory. I'm so sick of electric guitarists thinking their instrument has to take all the sonic space from 60 H up to 1K.
Yeah, but unfortunately one of the guitarists is also the band leader and he's very picky about his tone. So long as he has his own amp on stage, he's going to do that.
Interesting thing happened at our church last Sunday (I was in the house, not onstage for once).
Band gets in place for the first song, worship leader plays the first chord on his brand new Eric Clapton Signature Strat... nothing. No sound whatsoever. Tries again, nothing. He's a pretty cool guy so he just made a funny comment, switched to his acoustic so it wound up being two acoustic guitars and no electric. It sounded freakin awesome.
JMO but in the world of worship bands, sometimes no electric guitar is better than one that sounds bad or is poorly played.
Band gets in place for the first song, worship leader plays the first chord on his brand new Eric Clapton Signature Strat... nothing. No sound whatsoever. Tries again, nothing. He's a pretty cool guy so he just made a funny comment, switched to his acoustic so it wound up being two acoustic guitars and no electric. It sounded freakin awesome.
JMO but in the world of worship bands, sometimes no electric guitar is better than one that sounds bad or is poorly played.
