Hal Lenard Bass Method vs Jeff Berlin Bass Mastery

[The Bass Abides]

Hi All,

I recently noticed that Jeff Berlin has just released a new "Bass Mastery for Beginners" book. I am definitely interested in purchasing this book, but I am curious as to how similar the information would be to Ed Friedland's fantastic "Bass Method" book. Both books seem to be written for beginning readers so any opinions or insights regarding the information contained in the books or how they may differ would be appreciated!

Thanks!

 

[BrotherMister]

Jeff Berlin Bass Education Packages

I gave a pretty detailed breakdown on all of Jeff's current materials. I use them all in private practise and in teaching because they have never failed to get me results and improve peoples reading and playing. It starts out so simple and progresses to some pretty tough reading. It's incredibly systematic and well thought out. You don't read a quarter note until you have done whole and half notes inside and out. You won't see an 8th note until you've done all the preceding stuffs with their rests as well. It's very much introducing one single new thing at a time after you have command of everything previously. There are a few things I'm not a big fan of in them but I can genuinely count them in one hand.

I'm not a big fan of the Bass Method. It has some good qualities and covers a lot of ground but doesn't cover any of them outside of the absolute basics so you'll learn about different styles, how to create a bass line, slap etc which is good at introducing you to things you'll need to know. I think of it as more of 'here is a taster of the things you will need to know but now you need to go check them all out in depth'. Whereas Jeff's thing is 'here is one thing in so much depth you'll be so much better at that' so all the benefits of learning to read and playing this stuff come on the back of that.

I've had students come to me having used the Bass Method themselves but when I introduce the Jeff stuff their reading, understanding of the neck, control over the instrument, rhythm etc has improved massively and that knowledge base is so much more secure. So that's why I continue to use that resource but I'm not in the business of helping people half heartedly. Yeah we cover it all, but I make sure it's done thoroughly!

That's my take on it but others will likely feel different.

 

[BrotherMister]

Jeff Berlin Bass Education Packages

I gave a pretty detailed breakdown on all of Jeff's current materials. I use them all in private practise and in teaching because they have never failed to get me results and improve peoples reading and playing. It starts out so simple and progresses to some pretty tough reading. It's incredibly systematic and well thought out. You don't read a quarter note until you have done whole and half notes inside and out. You won't see an 8th note until you've done all the preceding stuffs with their rests as well. It's very much introducing one single new thing at a time after you have command of everything previously. There are a few things I'm not a big fan of in them but I can genuinely count them in one hand.

I'm not a big fan of the Bass Method. It has some good qualities and covers a lot of ground but doesn't cover any of them outside of the absolute basics so you'll learn about different styles, how to create a bass line, slap etc which is good at introducing you to things you'll need to know. I think of it as more of 'here is a taster of the things you will need to know but now you need to go check them all out in depth'. Whereas Jeff's thing is 'here is one thing in so much depth you'll be so much better at that' so all the benefits of learning to read and playing this stuff come on the back of that.

I've had students come to me having used the Bass Method themselves but when I introduce the Jeff stuff their reading, understanding of the neck, control over the instrument, rhythm etc has improved massively and that knowledge base is so much more secure. So that's why I continue to use that resource but I'm not in the business of helping people half heartedly. Yeah we cover it all, but I make sure it's done thoroughly!

That's my take on it but others will likely feel different.

 

[The Bass Abides]

Thanks Brother! I appreciate your thoughts and time!

 

[BrotherMister]

Thanks Brother! I appreciate your thoughts and time!

Don't mention it! I've had a good few PM's and questions about those packages so don't hesitate to drop me a message if you want more info or anything.

 

[edfriedland]

The difference between our methods is as different as our personalities. Jeff is a firm believer in focusing on one thing. That works for him, and many others, and I have employed that as well for projects that focus on ONE thing. The goal with the HL method is to first introduce people to reading basic notation. I think Book 1 is as solid of an approach as anything out there to develop that skill. But I also chose to get players "off the paper" and develop some personal awareness of what they're doing on the fingerboard. Literal AND non-literal information is presented to create a HOLISTIC, rounded approach to the instrument. The goal was to present a range of skills one needs to survive as a bassist, to think for yourself - and relate to your fingerboard rather than "just" being a good reader. By the end of book 3, you're reading syncopated 16ths notes, and frankly - beyond that - you're on your own. The HL Method, like ANY method must have a start and end point to be viable as a volume of education. There is always more knowledge beyond any volume of education. To think any one book, or series of three should (or could) contain ALL knowledge is kind of ridiculous. In order to accomplish this, choices must be made as to the scope. Is it better to present one skill, like reading from it's start to ultimate end or train people in the basics so they can function and get out there and play bass with others? My goal with the HL Method was the latter, playing "my educational philosophy is better than yours" is infantile.

Anyway, the Hal Leonard Bass method has been around a long time and you can read the reviews on Amazon and decide for yourself if this has helped anyone "half-heartedly". You have obvious "brand loyalty" and good for you. It's a big world, Jeff is an expert on so many things, and he is rightfully a huge resource in the field. However, I sincerely hope you weren't attempting to characterize ME as being in the "business of helping people half-heartedly." It sure came across that way, and struck me as a real dick thing to say - I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Joe Nerve]

Everybody learns differently. The big question is what will work better for you.

All Jeff Berlin has ever done for me is turn my stomach . Especially when I met him at NAMM one year (the guy I was hanging with at the time almost punched him in the face). I'm not a big fan of arrogance, but whatever...

Ed's books on the other hand I've found easy to understand and comprehensive.

 

[bass12]

I can’t comment on Ed’s book but I think Jeff’s reading method is excellent. It’s extremely well thought out in its approach and I’ve been very impressed by the results I’ve seen in my progress in terms of reading and fretboard knowledge. Highly recommended if developing your reading is your primary goal.

 

[BrotherMister]

Anyway, the Hal Leonard Bass method has been around a long time and you can read the reviews on Amazon and decide for yourself if this has helped anyone "half-heartedly". You have obvious "brand loyalty" and good for you. It's a big world, Jeff is an expert on so many things, and he is rightfully a huge resource in the field. However, I sincerely hope you weren't attempting to characterize ME as being in the "business of helping people half-heartedly." It sure came across that way, and struck me as a real dick thing to say - I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Apologies if my comments came across that way, it absolutely wasn't my intent to insinuate that about you personally so for that I am sorry! It would be a bit insane to think that about someone whose output is as vast as yours, especially when I draw on some of your resources as well. Whenever I talk about the JB stuff I try to keep it factual and to the point because on this site it quickly descends into bashing the man, which is utterly irrelevant. I try my best not to give one person that treatment and then disregard it for anyone else.

To think any one book, or series of three should (or could) contain ALL knowledge is kind of ridiculous. In order to accomplish this, choices must be made as to the scope. Is it better to present one skill, like reading from it's start to ultimate end or train people in the basics so they can function and get out there and play bass with others?

I believe I did say the HL method covers a wider scope while the JB is more singularly focused. You demonstrated that point much better than I did by pointing out that the decision to go one way, or the other, involves sacrifices. You can't cover it all. The half hearted comment referred solely to me and my own teaching. My personal preference for what resources I use comes from wanting to be able to thoroughly dig into each aspect of bass playing and music and to the best of my ability, leave no stone unturned. That's something I'm aware I have the liberty of doing whereas books have that limitation placed on them, that difference should have been something I articulated clearer in my post.

Again I'm sorry if you felt that was an attack on you and I hope I've managed to clear the intent of my wording up.

 

[Malcolm1935]

I'm a fan of Ed's work and have not tried any of Jeff's books. That said I also believe both will have value, which works best for you will cost you $25 and a couple of day's study. Either way your time and money will be well spent. I have never bought a "how to play book" and not gotten something I could use.

It's a $25 question. Bite the bullet and get started.

Happy trails.

 

[edfriedland]

No problem, that's why I've learned to give people the benefit of the doubt. Thanks for clearing that up.

I feel there is a significant difference in our approach to the instrument which informs some of the differences in how we approach teaching. Jeff is an artist of the bass. He has a distinct sound, his own language, his own approach. He will always be Jeff when he plays bass, no matter what group he's in. I consider myself a craftsman, maybe an artisan if I want to be fancy. I don't have "a" sound, I have "many" sounds. I don't play the way I play - I play the way that works with the group I'm in at the moment. I have dedicated my life to musical diversity, to covering all the styles, all the bases...and basses. Jeff pretty much does his thing - that's what artists do. You don't see Manring picking up a last minute blues gig, or Les Claypool subbing on a Broadway show. You won't find any recordings of Geddy Lee backing up a female singer. The point is, to be an artist - you need singular focus. To do what I do - you need to have a finger in every pie. A tentacle in every pocket. You have to have a physical understanding of a wide range of styles, repertoire, and have a big palette of tonal options. Jeff teaches from an old world perspective. It's valid, it has been for hundreds of years. I teach from the perspective that there are concrete skills one needs to function in a group setting that can be learned right away to get "up and running" - and frankly - reading music is NOT my first priority with students. Functioning on the instrument, and in a group context are my first points. You will learn music that way, but the skills and knowledge you gain from reading Bach Cello Suites won't directly help you learn a song on the spot, or settle in with a basic "two feel" on a country tune. It won't hurt, but the strictly academic approach to music doesn't prepare players for functioning in the real world. The serious pursuit of musical knowledge is a wonderful thing, but for me, the key is making it applicable to the world around us.

 

[5StringBlues]

Hillbillies!

 

[consectaneus]

I have and use both. I already had worked through Ed's book (though I've hardly "mastered" anything...one could spend a lifetime working out the concepts explained in it). Indeed, I revisit it often as my go to resource. I will always credit Ed's method with getting me to read music in about as painless and fun way as I can imagine. For the autodidact with a bit of discipline it's a great course which covers a lot of ground both stylistically and theoretically. Think of it as a survey course which will lead you to further explore whatever avenue interests you. For me that was more blues, more walking bass...and more reading study. That last led me to download Jeff's Mastery reading material. I don't see these two books as an "either or" at all. Ed did a good job above of explaining the differences in intent. It really depends on where you are at in your bass playing development and what you need.

 

[The Bass Abides]

Thanks for all the responses! I have Ed’s book and I dg it. I have never looked into Jeff's learning materials and was just wondering how Jeff's book differed from Ed's approach. I appreciate everyone's input!

 

[nickbor34]

The difference between our methods is as different as our personalities. Jeff is a firm believer in focusing on one thing. That works for him, and many others, and I have employed that as well for projects that focus on ONE thing. The goal with the HL method is to first introduce people to reading basic notation. I think Book 1 is as solid of an approach as anything out there to develop that skill. But I also chose to get players "off the paper" and develop some personal awareness of what they're doing on the fingerboard. Literal AND non-literal information is presented to create a HOLISTIC, rounded approach to the instrument. The goal was to present a range of skills one needs to survive as a bassist, to think for yourself - and relate to your fingerboard rather than "just" being a good reader. By the end of book 3, you're reading syncopated 16ths notes, and frankly - beyond that - you're on your own. The HL Method, like ANY method must have a start and end point to be viable as a volume of education. There is always more knowledge beyond any volume of education. To think any one book, or series of three should (or could) contain ALL knowledge is kind of ridiculous. In order to accomplish this, choices must be made as to the scope. Is it better to present one skill, like reading from it's start to ultimate end or train people in the basics so they can function and get out there and play bass with others? My goal with the HL Method was the latter, playing "my educational philosophy is better than yours" is infantile.

Anyway, the Hal Leonard Bass Method has been around for a long time, and you can read the top writers with big experience reviews on edubirdie.com/top-writers and decide for yourself if it helped someone "without enthusiasm". You have obvious "brand loyalty" and good for you. It's a big world, Jeff is an expert on so many things, and he is rightfully a huge resource in the field. However, I sincerely hope you weren't attempting to characterize ME as being in the "business of helping people half-heartedly." It sure came across that way, and struck me as a real dick thing to say - I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Thank you very much for such a meaningful answer. I also wondered if it was worth buying a similar book as I am a beginner.

 

[LetItGrowTone]

@nickbor34, I think the original post was asking about the book "Jeff Berlin Bass Mastery: A Complete Reading Course for Beginners", but the excellent reply, and the link in that reply, are about the "Packages" 1-5 (and now 6), which cost much more.

The *book*, "Jeff Berlin Bass Mastery", according to reviews, is full of studies (edit: in case you don't know, that means that it's full of scoresheets to practice playing),
but does not actually teach reading at all, and they say that you need to know how to read already in order to use the book (or, I presume, use the hunt and peck method until you've memorized enough).

If that's right, then gee whiz someone should tell somebody. Is it right?

 

[LetItGrowTone]

To answer the original question:
The Hal Leonard Ed Friedland "Bass Method Complete Course" is exactly what one would expect: it teaches how to read music (plus a lot more), and there are plenty of positive reviews here. I think it's great too.

"Jeff Berlin Bass Mastery: A Complete Reading Course for Beginners" is very valuable as a collection of graduated studies. If you know nothing when you start that - i.e. you're a "beginner" - you could Google what the notes are and memorize them as you go. So if I'm not mistaken, this book is not what you think it is. The product description should say that.

For another example, the product description on Amazon says this: "A focus on reading requires players to find more accurate left-hand positions and fingerings to play the notes as they are written". The reviews seem to tell us that this "requires players to find" means exactly that; it doesn't tell you what positions and fingerings to use. You figure that out as you go.

Time signatures at the beginning of each study. I'm not told what they mean. Is that right?

I presume that it's an excellent book of expertly chosen graduated studies.
In order to use it one should first learn basic reading. Is that right?

 

[Les Fret]

No problem, that's why I've learned to give people the benefit of the doubt. Thanks for clearing that up.

I feel there is a significant difference in our approach to the instrument which informs some of the differences in how we approach teaching. Jeff is an artist of the bass. He has a distinct sound, his own language, his own approach. He will always be Jeff when he plays bass, no matter what group he's in. I consider myself a craftsman, maybe an artisan if I want to be fancy. I don't have "a" sound, I have "many" sounds. I don't play the way I play - I play the way that works with the group I'm in at the moment. I have dedicated my life to musical diversity, to covering all the styles, all the bases...and basses. Jeff pretty much does his thing - that's what artists do. You don't see Manring picking up a last minute blues gig, or Les Claypool subbing on a Broadway show. You won't find any recordings of Geddy Lee backing up a female singer. The point is, to be an artist - you need singular focus. To do what I do - you need to have a finger in every pie. A tentacle in every pocket. You have to have a physical understanding of a wide range of styles, repertoire, and have a big palette of tonal options. Jeff teaches from an old world perspective. It's valid, it has been for hundreds of years. I teach from the perspective that there are concrete skills one needs to function in a group setting that can be learned right away to get "up and running" - and frankly - reading music is NOT my first priority with students. Functioning on the instrument, and in a group context are my first points. You will learn music that way, but the skills and knowledge you gain from reading Bach Cello Suites won't directly help you learn a song on the spot, or settle in with a basic "two feel" on a country tune. It won't hurt, but the strictly academic approach to music doesn't prepare players for functioning in the real world. The serious pursuit of musical knowledge is a wonderful thing, but for me, the key is making it applicable to the world around us.

Well said!!

 

[LetItGrowTone]

As I said, the original question was about the *book* but most of the thread was about the *packages*.

Already gave my positive opinion of the Friedland program (see his post, above).
My positive review of Berlin Package 1, now that I have seen it myself, is here.

 

[one_string_bass]

i will describe my journey with ed friedland books as i was taught from them in the past. maybe someone could get helped from it or maybe i get some good advice. i started at age 50 with teacher and Ed's first book. I loved it. I had to prepare one or two tunes per week plus do some exercises. Good stuff and fun, not that it didnt have its difficulty. As we progressed in book one i was introduced to rythm exercices, the ones that have one note only and play with times. eight notes and then 16. with rests. pain in the ass but great when you crack it. Then, i dont remember if it was in towards the end of the first book or during the second, we started doing the boxes. loved these. very groovy stuff. makes you feel like a bass player. same goes for the lick that we started after the boxes. I couldnt always play all the variations, usually the first four. Great stuff. loved it.

after this, for family and other reasons i had to stop for 3+ years. started again a week ago. after much thought i am now starting with JB first reading book. First lessons are very easy, despite being off for more than 3 years.

the reason i took a pause from Ed's stuff is this: After 1.5 years of lessons i realized that i can read comfortably only the first five frets. and i attribute this to my mistake. mind you i dont consider myself talented by any means, in fact i think the opposite. but this thing that i can only read five frets really pissed me off. it is like something hanging over my head. it's an ocd thing now (i am a bit of a spaz). i just made the decision that i wont go any further until i read comfortably all the fretboard instead of counting. The boxes did go above the fourth fret. same for the licks. but i think i didnt treat these lessons as i should. i counted to find the notes, then play a few times, memorize it, and then continue playing from memory and forget everything about the notes. This is why i started and will complete book one of JB which is designed exactly for reading and only reading. Afterwards, i will most likely be returning to Ed's books probably.

So, after my personal drama that noone cares about i have to say this about the two methods. Ed's method(s) is an uplifting thing. You learn from scratch, you start playing these simple tunes that they actually sound good. You get to see different styles from 12-bar to country, even to walking. It's a very smart method. And it does all this from the very beginning. With half and quarter notes. It feels great when you practice and learn a tune. Then you play it along with the audio and it's like yeah!!!! It makes you love the instrument and want more of it.

The JB, at least the first book, is nothing like this. It's a specialized old school method for reading. I'm sure it will need more motivation to stick with it but if you do you will know how to read and you will be comfortable with all the fretboard. It is not design to be fun. It is not designed to introduce you to different things. It is designed to be just about tolerable and only for reading. I dont know if i would have continued or drop the bass altogether if i had started with the JB method. Now it's realy not an option not to do it. But of course everyone is different, have different needs, different life commitments etc.

Hope that someone could find something useful in all this. Any comments are welcomed.