Half step down...tune down or learn the song 'wrong'?

[mmbongo]

I'm hooking up with some guys and doing a bunch of cover songs. He sent me a few songs to learn for our initial jam session coming up, and added that they play a half step down but to learn these in standard. So I guess for now we will be playing standard.

But, it sounds like when things get going they will want to tune down a half step.

So, I can either tune down a half step and learn them by patterns, or I can slow the songs down and learn the 'new' notes and stay tuned standard.

Tuning down Pros:
Pattern would be in the same place as playing standard.
I'd be in the same tuning as the guitarist.

Tuning down cons:
I hate tuning down. I've spent the last year perfecting my string selection for the perfect gauges and tension, not to mention neck tension and action. All that goes out the window when tuning down. I am a perfectionist with string tension and truss rod action.

I also rely on my Polytuner to make sure I'm on the right note sometimes, just for a confidence booster. Before the song starts for instance, I always verify with my tuner that the first note I play is the right one because I fear not starting out right. If I learn the song in standard, then tune down and rely on playing a pattern, the notes will not be right. I don't learn to play 'fifth fret on the third string', I learn to play a D.


Option B is to just learn the song tuned down a half step with the 'new' notes.

New notes pros:
Bass is setup to my liking, using the tuning and string tension that I've used for years.
If they decide to play something in standard, I'm all set.
Notes register correctly on my tuner. If we start in G, my tuner says 'G'.

New notes cons:
Songs must be learned differently.
My bass is tuned differently than the guitarist.
Some songs may be difficult to move down a half step because of open notes and such when they were written.

So, going in and learning these songs anew do throw my perfect action and feel out the window to tune down and learn patterns, or do I stay tuned standard and learn the notes?

 

[john_g]

IMHO it depends on the songs you are doing. Most songs Ive done in my current and previous band that were Eb I learned in standard and adjusted the fingering, but there were some that hit alot of low E(b) that I turned down for (or used my 5er for).

 

[MultiScaleMale]

It depends on the song. Sometimes I learn it "wrong", sometimes I use the pitch shift on my M5. I do the drop 1/2 step enough that I'm going to try a Digitech Drop which looks promising.

 

[lyla1953]

We only do certain songs tuned down (Pride and Joy for example) but most are standard tuning - I don't want to mess with stage tuning or extra basses specifically tuned - so I just transpose to the different key. So far it's worked fine.

 

[viper4000]

For me, I learn it in a different key. I gig with a 5'er mostly so playing Eb or D is not an issue. Also, IME in cover bands, the singer can dictate using a different key due to vocal range. Getting used to playing songs in different keys has made me a better player.

 

[jthisdell]

The joy of playing bass... learning to transpose and being able to play in any key. Sometimes on the spot.

IMHO it is best to keep a standard tuning, learn the song in the correct key and then transpose it to whatever key the powers that be decide. Going through this exercise will make you really know the song. I play with a bluegrass group and they capo their acoustics and banjos alot. Sometimes the chord charts are written out in the "real" key and sometimes in the "capo" key (ie it says G but it is really A, etc). Keps it challenging for us bass guys. Sunday we were playing at a block party and they pull out this Allison Krauss' "In The Palm of Your Hand", which we had practiced one time a couple months back. This has a fair number of changes in it and the chart says G but it is really capoed to A and I follow along respectfully. Afterwards the guitarist says that I did pretty well, then he realized that I was transposing the whole thing on the fly and compliments me again.

 

[McMillions]

Totally depends for me but 90% of the time I tune down to match the guitar. I almost always have at least two basses with me. A 5 in standard and a 4 in Eb both of which are setup for that specific tuning. I find tuning down is usually the way to go though since most guitarists I've worked with will think in standard even if they are down a half step. This makes communication much easier on stage or rehearsal.

 

[rtav]

Generally, I say learn the notes. By learning the notes you can make easy adjustments for your changing keys, fingering preferences, etc.

A few years ago I was hired to do a session for some vocalist. He sent me charts and a demo of him singing and playing his stuff on guitar.

We get to the studio, start recording and the singer is doing a scratch vocal when he stops the session and announces, "It's too high. I'm not comfortable in that register. Can we lower it?" Everyone looked at each other with the same "***?" look. The guitarist said, "Dude, we learned the song as note for note like you sent it to us. It's not like we're playing it too high or something." Since the vocalist was paying for everything we shrugged, said, "OK," and then had to very quickly re-chart the song a whole step lower. Started playing. He stopped it again, "Still too high." So he and the guitarist tried different chords until the singer was comfortable - we wound up lowering it another half step before he was happy with it. At least I wasn't the one wasting money while the band re-learned the song (and worked out the gonks) with the studio clock ticking. What a PITA.

In that case, detuning would have helped some, but if the singer went much lower detuning would have been useless - so (generally speaking) I say learn the notes - ultimately it gives you more flexibility.

 

[cnltb]

If you know a song you should surely be able to play it in any key.
No?

 

[McMillions]

Generally, I say learn the notes. By learning the notes you can make easy adjustments for your changing keys, fingering preferences, etc.

A few years ago I was hired to do a session for some vocalist. He sent me charts and a demo of him singing and playing his stuff on guitar.

We get to the studio, start recording and the singer is doing a scratch vocal when he stops the session and announces, "It's too high. I'm not comfortable in that register. Can we lower it?" Everyone looked at each other with the same "***?" look. The guitarist said, "Dude, we learned the song as note for note like you sent it to us. It's not like we're playing it too high or something." Since the vocalist was paying for everything we shrugged, said, "OK," and then had to very quickly re-chart the song a whole step lower. Started playing. He stopped it again, "Still too high." So he and the guitarist tried different chords until the singer was comfortable - we wound up lowering it another half step before he was happy with it. At least I wasn't the one wasting money while the band re-learned the song (and worked out the gonks) with the studio clock ticking. What a PITA.

In that case, detuning would have helped some, but if the singer went much lower detuning would have been useless - so (generally speaking) I say learn the notes - ultimately it gives you more flexibility.

The Nashville system works for these kind of situations. Learning a tune as a series of chord changes using the chord's intervalic relationship to a key centre. This system can be a little tricky though if you are playing a tune that I essentially riff based. Think of a tune like spoonman by soundgarden. The song is a series of riffs that are based off the use of open strings and incorporate drop D tuning. It could be done down a semitone on a five but it it would pose a lot more technical problems than it's worth in my opinion to avoid tuning down. Like I said it's totally possible to do but seems to over complicate the situation.

 

[cb56]

Transpose. And BTW that's not doing it "wrong"

 

[Rocktometrist]

If you know a song you should surely be able to play it in any key.
No?

Not necessarily. That crazy lick you learned using an open string can be a whole different can of worms in a different key...heck I'll even admit that an unusual chord progression can sometimes give me brain freeze in a different key--especially if I've practiced it a million times and I'm on muscle memory autopilot.

Re: the OP's question, I'd say learn it in the "wrong" key. Detuning is a PITA...

 

[devinp17]

I love 1/2 down tuning because you play the same notes on the fretboard as you would in standard (obviously), but it's just flat one note and it makes it sound darker. What I would do if I'm frequently playing 1/2 step down: Get a bass that I'll be using for that tuning only, get the best strings for that tuning, get a setup done (or do it myself) in that tuning, and leave that bass tuned down. There you have a perfect 1/2 step down bass!

 

[cnltb]

Not necessarily. That crazy lick you learned using an open string can be a whole different can of worms in a different key...heck I'll even admit that an unusual chord progression can sometimes give me brain freeze in a different key--especially if I've practiced it a million times and I'm on muscle memory autopilot.

Re: the OP's question, I'd say learn it in the "wrong" key. Detuning is a PITA...

I meant to imply that it would be prudent to prepare for eventualities demanding a certain flexibility.

 

[Shardik]

I am in a cover band, and I play ALL songs "wrong" (compared to the original fingering, that is). The reason is that I tune all my basses DGCF. That's right, one whole step down. I am picky about string tension, too, and buy all my string sets for this tuning (to me 45, 60, 80, 105 seems to work well)

It started with a drop D (needing to go that low), but I never got used to drop D. For me, DGCF was like coming home. A lot of songs are written in G or C, and on the odd occation that I may need a special fingering with open strings in EADG, I may just put on a capo.

What is my point: Do what suits YOU! There is no right or wrong as long as it sounds good.

 

[mmbongo]

Sweet Child O' Mine is going to be fun for me. In my other band, we play it a half step UP which makes it super easy on bass in standard tuning. The original is a half step down and it was very confusing and not at all intuitive to learn it tuned standard, so I tuned my 4 string down a half step down and was able to play it exactly as I learned it. The problem will be if they decide to play it another step down from that.

 

[callofcthulhu]

This is really not a big deal.

If you let the action/intonation difference of a half step tuning difference effect you, you're just being needlessly anal.

No one else will notice or care where on the neck you're playing as long as you're playing in the same key as everyone else, and neither should you.

 

[john_g]

Sweet Child O' Mine is going to be fun for me. In my other band, we play it a half step UP which makes it super easy on bass in standard tuning. The original is a half step down and it was very confusing and not at all intuitive to learn it tuned standard, so I tuned my 4 string down a half step down and was able to play it exactly as I learned it. The problem will be if they decide to play it another step down from that.

That was going to be an example I would use as one that was fairly easy to learn in standard tuning. We did it in my previous band and he really only goes to the low Eb a handful of times and it didnt change anything when I played it an octave up.

 

[Shardik]

Sweet Child O' Mine is going to be fun for me. In my other band, we play it a half step UP which makes it super easy on bass in standard tuning. The original is a half step down and it was very confusing and not at all intuitive to learn it tuned standard, so I tuned my 4 string down a half step down and was able to play it exactly as I learned it. The problem will be if they decide to play it another step down from that.

That's one of the songs I play "wrong" in our band. The guitar players do NOT tune down, so THEY play it right, but since they don't downtune, we play it one half step up from the original. When I practice to the original song, I use the pitch shift in the MS-60B to get the fingering right for my tuning.

 

[FunkHead]

I was in a band called Knucklehead.(Amazing musicians). The guitarist used 5 guitars all tuned differently. I ended up using a 5 string. I had to rely on my ear to be in the correct key. It's just best to go to a 5 string if this is the band you choose to work with. Songs like Spoonman are actually much harder to play on a 5 string but it's well worth it in the long run. If you choose to run with one 4 string bass then set it up 1/2 step down and then get a drop D tuner. Then learn all the songs but remember to adjust when playing with the band or you'll be off 1/2 step.