Half step down...tune down or learn the song 'wrong'?

[faulknersj]

Perhaps this is a good excuse for buying and learning to play a 5 string. Just learn the songs in standard tuning otherwise. I play quite a few Eb songs in standard tuning no with no issues ( Rock With You, Do I Do). FWIW, I was in a similar predicament years ago. The solution that worked best for me was to learn theory well enough that I can basically play songs in any key any time. In addition to my main band, I sub in with friends bands from time to time and am forced to play songs in all sorts of different keys from what I am used to. Studying music seriously has helped tremendously. Let us know how you tackle this!

 

[mmbongo]

I was in a band called Knucklehead.(Amazing musicians). The guitarist used 5 guitars all tuned differently. I ended up using a 5 string. I had to rely on my ear to be in the correct key. It's just best to go to a 5 string if this is the band you choose to work with. Songs like Spoonman are actually much harder to play on a 5 string but it's well worth it in the long run. If you choose to run with one 4 string bass then set it up 1/2 step down and then get a drop D tuner. Then learn all the songs but remember to adjust when playing with the band or you'll be off 1/2 step.

Yeah I don't think I ever mentioned it, but I play a 5 string pretty much exclusively (heck, look at my signature!). I'm not opposed to keeping a down tuned 4 string within reach though. But I do NOT want to down tune my 5 string.

 

[faulknersj]

Yeah I don't think I ever mentioned it, but I play a 5 string pretty much exclusively (heck, look at my signature!). I'm not opposed to keeping a down tuned 4 string within reach though. But I do NOT want to down tune my 5 string.

Now I am confused. You can play any song in any key without any drop tunings on a 5 string bass.

 

[FunkHead]

Yeah I don't think I ever mentioned it, but I play a 5 string pretty much exclusively (heck, look at my signature!). I'm not opposed to keeping a down tuned 4 string within reach though. But I do NOT want to down tune my 5 string.

Right on! I would Let the guitarists do their thing but keep the 5'r tuned standard. If they're tuned down 1/2 step all you need to do is slide your left hand down 1 fret. Trust me! this is the best way for you to do it. The guitarist(s) may cry a bit because they won't be able to "cheat" by looking at your hand position. They'll get over (Used to) it.

 

[troy mcclure]

I learn it as played ( the patterns make sense). If you band always plays in standard, you have a choice, is your singer going to sing it higher or are you going to transpose?
If you are not in a band woth horns or keys, this is an easy choice. Sure I can transpose, but open strings and familiar positions are you friends on a 4 set rock gig.

 

[jd-ns]

Since everyone else in my band tunes down 1/2 step I prefer tuning down 1/2 step rather than playing a whole night (of non-jazz) in odd keys (Gb, Db, Eb, Ab, etc...)

 

[troy mcclure]

Funny story (for me) I have a buddy who is a 5 player and does alot of fill in work, and I had him fill-in for me. That particular band played mostly in standard but we did a guitar bass swap at the begining or end of a set for 3 or 4 songs. Mr I can play anything on a 5 totally F'd up all the half step tunes.

 

[jd-ns]

a heavy riffing bass line tuned down 1/2 step and using a lot of open E's (Eb's) isn't exactly the same on a standard tuned 5 string playing in Eb...

 

[FunkHead]

a heavy riffing bass line tuned down 1/2 step and using a lot of open E's (Eb's) isn't exactly the same on a standard tuned 5 string playing in Eb...

It's a little harder but it can be a ton of fun. I did it for years.

 

[mpayne86]

I view it like this. Covers need to be close to the original, but with some creative input. Tune down a half a step, it will be fine, in fact i know singers like that sometimes because its easier on their throats!

 

[City]

I had to tune down 1/2 step. And do a little tweeking to my setup (5 string) I struggled without the new tuning for about 3 months in order to keep my setup. But finally tuned down for in the long run is was just another thing I didn't have to transpose in my head on the fly. This weekend for example, someone yelled out a song, we never played together in this band, but each had played it before in other bands. End of night, transposing in my head on the fly wasn't something I would have done well.

City

 

[interp]

Play a five string and learn to transpose any song to any key. It's not brain surgery and it's part of being truly proficient on your instrument.

 

[mambo4]

the only reasons to tune down:

• a signature riff requires open strings
• you think its sounds better

otherwise, I wouldn't bother. transposing is fun and often reveals new ideas when you are forced to switch to a new octave

 

[Kragnorak]

That's one of the songs I play "wrong" in our band. The guitar players do NOT tune down, so THEY play it right, but since they don't downtune, we play it one half step up from the original. When I practice to the original song, I use the pitch shift in the MS-60B to get the fingering right for my tuning.

Why doesn't timbre and note quality mean a lot to more people? I'm not picking on Shardik specifically, but this is a good example. I'm picturing the guitar chords underneath the last solo in "Sweet Child O' Mine". There are those chords with an Open Eb at the bottom where the strings are given a good whack to the point that the strings phase slightly sharp. The half-step detuned E-string has just the right string tension for this sound. To my ears, unless these guitarists are using really light-tension strings, they are playing the song "wrong". Why? Because that part of the song probably sounds too bright and the E chords sound tight and in tune. The guitar leads are probably that much less bendy as well.

OK, but say I'm in a band that is tuned standard and they want to cover that song and I'm playing a bass in D. I would most likely choose to raise the D to an E for that song. Again, this would specifically be so that I can gong that open string every four bars; it just has a different sound than an E on the 2nd fret.

 

[Shardik]

I guess we have to agree to disagree. There are those cover bands that aim to sound as close to the original as possible. Those who make it are often VERY good. They sometimes are better than the original band performing it live. For them, playing the same tuning on the same kind of strings through the same kind of pickups is important.

The band I'm in is not about sounding identical, but about sounding good. There are limitations in equipment, skills and vocal range/timbre. But we sound good.

 

[Kragnorak]

Now I am confused. You can play any song in any key without any drop tunings on a 5 string bass.

This is quite the challenge! Off the top of my head I would like to see "Aenema" by Tool or "A.D.I.D.A.S." by Korn played that way.

 

[RBrownBass]

The solution that worked best for me was to learn theory well enough that I can basically play songs in any key any time... Studying music seriously has helped tremendously. Let us know how you tackle this!

+1

No need for shortcuts. If you have to worry about the key, it's probably better to pass that gig on to a better player.

 

[Rocky]

This is really not a big deal.

If you let the action/intonation difference of a half step tuning difference effect you, you're just being needlessly anal.

No one else will notice or care where on the neck you're playing as long as you're playing in the same key as everyone else, and neither should you.

I disagree. I am learning to play upright in standard tuning so if I have to play electric tuned down it messes with me. Especially at higher volumes.
I also hate the way the strings feel tuned down.

 

[Not yet]

Play in two bands that are 1/2 step down. Fought it but now very comfortable and prefer

When learning new songs have a bass that never gets out tuned standard all the time and use that when needed

No drama, no judgement, and easy as can be

 

[verycoolname]

I'd look into the new DigiTech Drop pedal (which I think someone mentioned on the first page of this thread). You can keep your bass tuned in standard (thus keeping to set up the way you prefer) and the pedal allows you to down tune down from a half step down all the way to a full octave down.



If that's not an option then I'd say down tune...maybe use one of your basses as a dedicated "half step down" bass and set it up the way that's comfortable for you.