Hamer USA: bass design input request

[hasbeen]

I am a devoted Cruise Bass player--I have a 2Tek and a Gotoh. And GAS for one of the older set-neck Cuise models with the EMG soap/P combo. I would LOVE to see a great new offering from Hamer.

When Hamer asked you to help design a bass, did they give you any indication about what market they are targeting? If they're just saying "design a bass that's going to sell" that's a bit vague. Just an observation from a career marketing guy who does pretty well .

They need to decide what part of the market they are going after. Beginners whose moms are paying for the bass? Players that want "vintage" but can't afford a '65 Fender J? Dudes with gray hair looking to (kind of) relive a certain era?

Seriously, Hamer needs to tell you SOMETHING before you can say, here's your new bass design. At least if they want more than a blind guess about what's going to work in the market.

I love talking about this stuff. You are welcome to PM me.

No....they haven't told me about who they are marketing to. In the end, that is why they're asking me.......as I'm close to the bass market. My major role with my amp company affiliation is deciding where the market is, who our target customer is, what do we need to do to meet their needs (form factor, feature sets etc) and how to reach them and how that fits the brand image....if it does. It's really kind of seeing the project through cradle to grave.

 

[hasbeen]

Since J and P are not on the table (and I totally understand the reasoning there), I would sit back and ask what Hamer's strength is. My perception is that their image is strongest with rockers who like to look stylish onstage. This was true for all their best products back in the hair-metal glory days, and at least with guitars it's true today.

So my next question is, who are "the rockers that like to look stylish" of today's market? Some of them will be older guys like me who think the Explorer bodies with custom-shop polka-dotted paintjobs are awesome and iconic; but we will perhaps be in the minority, and I don't know that the younger crowd would go for that. So who do we have on top of the rock image scene... crabcore (and other -core) bands; electropop; techno/math-metal; R&B/hip-hop crossovers; what else, I don't know, I'm out of touch. But anyway I would look at the currently-popular image-rock artists and analyze what message they are trying to send with the gear and clothes etc. they use already, and I would use those elements to try to capture that energy in a new design.

great post...thanks.

 

[hasbeen]

Do you ever post on the Hamer Fan Club board? You'd get some great feedback from the guys over there, guaranteed.

In general, Hamer seems to be going for, more or less, traditional styling with a twist based on guitars like the Talladega and the Monaco bass. For something that they'd put into production I can't imagine that they'd even consider revisiting something like, for example, the Blitz bass or a bolt-on CruiseBass (sadly). A set-neck Tele Bass with the Duncan Fat Cat single coils (sort of a bass version of the Talladega) would be cool as hell and might fly. I presume Jol would have to sign off on the ultimate design selection.

Good luck with this project, I would like to see something new, cool and affordable from Hamer. I am a 2-TEK CruiseBass player.

No...I don't visit the Hamer Fan Club. Yes, Jol is the design guru. It was he that asked me about this project.....knowing that very bass-centric. He was in my office the other day. I have on display, a Talladega guitar and a Moncao bass...side by side. In the book case next to them, I have every guitar player magazine, going back to 1975...all bound.

This started the discussion. BTW, Jol is a bass player too! Quite passionate one by the way.

 

[LowB-ing]

I think one area of the market that is underpopulated is semi acoustics with traditional styling. This might be because of limited demand, but might also be because noone else is doing it just right. The Epiphone Casidy model seems to have a lot of fans. Personally I would LOVE to have something in this vein with 5 strings, but noone seems to be doing that.

Here's what I would really want most of all:
-Archtop styling with dual f-holes. Doesn't have to be an actual archtop (to expensive), just that kind of looks.
-BIG body that looks right on stage with full size acoustic guitars, and allows the upper bout to extend to near the 12th fret for good balance. Single cutaway.
-Slim/thin body with solid block in the center like an ES 335 for good sustain and less feedback.
-Piezo pickup for acoustic sound.
-Single Volume knob "hidden" on the bridge, Rob Allen style.
-Detachable pickup/pickguard assembly with chrome pickup covers, that plugs into the onboard electronics through a hidden jack in the lower f-hole. The pickguard has blend knob for piezo/mag and other goodies. When the assembly is attached the bass can be run in passive mode with the piezo in series with the mag like on one of those Wendler Electrocoustic instruments.
-AVAILABLE IN 5-STRING VERSION!

I think this design has the potential to shore up the combined semiacoustic market by attracting the "acoustic" rockers, the indie rockers, the folk players and the jazz players. Each one of those niches might not be that big but combined they represent a lot of players. Hamer also has some previous experience with semi acoustics, so I think the would have at least some "street cred" with the potential buyers.

 

[hasbeen]

I think one area of the market that is underpopulated is semi acoustics with traditional styling. This might be because of limited demand, but might also be because noone else is doing it just right. The Epiphone Casidy model seems to have a lot of fans. Personally I would LOVE to have something in this vein with 5 strings, but noone seems to be doing that.

Here's what I would really want most of all:
-Archtop styling with dual f-holes. Doesn't have to be an actual archtop (to expensive), just that kind of looks.
-BIG body that looks right on stage with full size acoustic guitars, and allows the upper bout to extend to near the 12th fret for good balance. Single cutaway.
-Slim/thin body with solid block in the center like an ES 335 for good sustain and less feedback.
-Piezo pickup for acoustic sound.
-Single Volume knob "hidden" on the bridge, Rob Allen style.
-Detachable pickup/pickguard assembly with chrome pickup covers, that plugs into the onboard electronics through a hidden jack in the lower f-hole. The pickguard has blend knob for piezo/mag and other goodies. When the assembly is attached the bass can be run in passive mode with the piezo in series with the mag like on one of those Wendler Electrocoustic instruments.
-AVAILABLE IN 5-STRING VERSION!

I think this design has the potential to shore up the combined semiacoustic market by attracting the "acoustic" rockers, the indie rockers, the folk players and the jazz players. Each one of those niches might not be that big but combined they represent a lot of players. Hamer also has some previous experience with semi acoustics, so I think the would have at least some "street cred" with the potential buyers.

GREAT post. Thanks.

 

[bongomania]

I would totally buy one of those in a 5-string, if it balanced well.

 

[scotch]

I think one area of the market that is underpopulated is semi acoustics with traditional styling. This might be because of limited demand, but might also be because noone else is doing it just right. The Epiphone Casidy model seems to have a lot of fans. Personally I would LOVE to have something in this vein with 5 strings, but noone seems to be doing that.

Here's what I would really want most of all:
-Archtop styling with dual f-holes. Doesn't have to be an actual archtop (to expensive), just that kind of looks.
-BIG body that looks right on stage with full size acoustic guitars, and allows the upper bout to extend to near the 12th fret for good balance. Single cutaway.
-Slim/thin body with solid block in the center like an ES 335 for good sustain and less feedback.
-Piezo pickup for acoustic sound.
-Single Volume knob "hidden" on the bridge, Rob Allen style.
-Detachable pickup/pickguard assembly with chrome pickup covers, that plugs into the onboard electronics through a hidden jack in the lower f-hole. The pickguard has blend knob for piezo/mag and other goodies. When the assembly is attached the bass can be run in passive mode with the piezo in series with the mag like on one of those Wendler Electrocoustic instruments.
-AVAILABLE IN 5-STRING VERSION!

I think this design has the potential to shore up the combined semiacoustic market by attracting the "acoustic" rockers, the indie rockers, the folk players and the jazz players. Each one of those niches might not be that big but combined they represent a lot of players. Hamer also has some previous experience with semi acoustics, so I think the would have at least some "street cred" with the potential buyers.

Agreed! The electric bass market sorely needs an affordable (1500 or less), large-bodied long-scale Archtop bass. Ibanez almost filled this niche, but not in a manner that seemed "all-chips in".

The piezo bridge would be a great idea. Yamaha had an affordable bass with this feature, but in a solidbody & dated looking package.

I'm not on-board with the 'hidden' electronics thing, although a tasteful approach to making control components look 'more natural' would be cool. Blending the piezo & magnetic pup is essential. Also active buffering, of course- perhaps 2 stacked knobs for volume/system blend, and a baxandall-inspired bass/treble stacked pot. Put some trimmers for the piezo in a rear panel & you'd have real flexibility without looking like an Alembic prototype! Also, a traditional 3-way toggle for magnetic pup selection, but not on the upper bought. With hollows, a bridge and neck magnetic pup are essential to providing a flexible instrument, imo.

Hmmm,.. getting expensive, isn't it? Well, there could be a 'deluxe' with the piezo system, figured top and better hardware. And a 'standard' with painted laminate top, no piezo and plain appointments...

I like where Low-B'ing is going & Hamer can definitely do carved tops well!

 

[The Thinker]

No....they haven't told me about who they are marketing to. In the end, that is why they're asking me.......as I'm close to the bass market. My major role with my amp company affiliation is deciding where the market is, who our target customer is, what do we need to do to meet their needs (form factor, feature sets etc) and how to reach them and how that fits the brand image....if it does. It's really kind of seeing the project through cradle to grave.

I see--I took "design" too literally. Bongomania's suggestion about "style-conscious rockers" (or whatever it was) was great, I thought. If any company has come in and scooped up that market up I'd say it's ESP with its LTD line. They have a very definite approach and do a good job lining up endorsers from the kinds of bands that influence their target market.

Personally I've been a little disappointed with the ESP/LTD basses. The necks are maybe a tad chunky, the basses tend to be heavy. But they're well made and sound good.

I think there's room in that niche for Hamer to come in and take a big piece of it. With some cool modern hard rock/metal designs (like an updated approach to the Chaparral?), lighter weight and slimmer neck I think Hamer would do well.

 

[scotch]

I hate to say it, but Hamer really needs to do better with advertising and endorsers. When I hear Hamer, I only picture 12-string basses for Kings-X and Pearl Jam, and a nostagiac nod to Sting's Police-era fretless maple t-bird.

12-string metal rock is pretty over (on a large scale) + most players really don't need a 12'er (although they're awesome!). Hamer would do well to capture the alt-rock and alt-country scene. If you could get bands like The Raconteurs or Wilco rockin' a classy hollow, I think you'd capture a whole emerging group of song-oriented rockers that really don't have a flag to fly. Who can afford a Gretsch White Falcon? You know?




***note: If Hamer has any of those maple fretless t-bird basses laying in a warehouse somewhere, I want to hear about it!!!! ;-) ***

 

[Dan B]

Honestly I'd bring back the Cruise. I saw a prototype on Craigslist for trade and I am gassing like crazy. But if you are looking for something new...

How about take the Cruise shape, make it curvier (not over the top like a Ritter or Carl Thompson, but rather accentuate the curves already present on the Cruise), have a chabered/hollowbody option and have the F hole similar to that of Dingwalls; something modern but not over the top:

In any case, I wish you good luck; I have always been a fan of Hamers ever since I saw a bassist in a Queen cover band use a black and maple Cruise.

 

[Darkstrike]

A mass production of the Night Falcon, maybe?

 

[scotch]

A mass production of the Night Falcon, maybe?

That's really close!!!!

Change up the pup location & a few details, but that's the bizness right there! (minus the 80's rocker! )

I like the traditional, solid 1-piece bridge on a hollow bass.

 

[Darkstrike]

That's really close!!!!

Change up the pup location & a few details, but that's the bizness right there! (minus the 80's rocker! )

Actually, for me, the only things I'd change, are maybe the tortoise shell binding(in favour of black, or black pearl), and add the 'ol low B. But then, I'd probably buy it as is.

I dunno would EMG make any more of those gold HB's though...

 

[hasbeen]

A mass production of the Night Falcon, maybe?

That was/is a neat bass...cool project that Jol did.

Mass produced isn't something we're looking for at this point though.

 

[LowB-ing]

That's really close!!!!

Change up the pup location & a few details, but that's the bizness right there! (minus the 80's rocker! )

I like the traditional, solid 1-piece bridge on a hollow bass.

Not close at all as far as I'm concerned. It has no appeal for the "unplugged" crowd and quite limited appeal for the folk or jazz crowds (Would be cool for indie or blues though).

I think single cutaway and bigger body are essential. The whole point for me is that it is a semi acoustic that can be made to look really "acoustic" in a traditional way, when needed. The detachable pickup assembly means that you won't have to compromise, regardless if you want a typical acoustic or semi acoustic sound and look.

 

[bassie12]

Original 80s Cruise bass body in Korina. Maple neck with rosewood board & choice of P or J profiles. With Darkstars.

There's your "Modern Vintage"

 

[KramerBassFan]

I'm going to have to say the Cruise bass would not do very well now days.... With all of the boutique jazz's, who would buy just Hamer's take on just another Jazz Bass?

I think the hollowbody that has been mentioned above would do rather well... but just PLEASE not another P or J Bass! The market it flooded with them.

(And I did see where it was said a P or J was pretty much out)

 

[MichaelScott]

1) Put a 2Tek on it.
2) Ebony finger board options
3) Cool color options (like Pastels, Oranges, Whites)
4) Tort pickups

Just look at how gah gah people go over the cool options Fender Japan does. If you give us some options and make it looks some what J/P bass like you'll get sales.

 

[mikezimmerman]

I'm going to have to say the Cruise bass would not do very well now days.... With all of the boutique jazz's, who would buy just Hamer's take on just another Jazz Bass?

The original 80's Cruise bass was not a Jazz Bass:

 

[Kael]

1st background on myself as I may or may not be the market you are targeting with this. I am a "semi-pro" bassist (ie: about half my income comes from music). I play a variety of music (rock, jazz, country, red dirt, latin, R&B, funk, praise and worship, etc.). What I would look for is influenced by this.

A well constructed 5'er that is 34" scale (the whole 35" low B thing is WAY overrated), a FULL 19mm spacing, and has a good solid passive tone. A crappy preamp can ruin a good sounding bass. A great preamp can only marginally improve a bass that sounds like poo passive. If you want to add a preamp, I'd make sure you have the passive thing nailed first.

Appearance wise, I wouldn't just throw out another fender clone, but I wouldn't go to wild with the design either. Truth is, that while they might look cool in the showroom, many funkier designs get looked down on when you get them out on a gig. Fancy pants designs don't cut it on a blues gig, but simple non-threatening designs are ALWAYS accepted on every gig.

Price range for new workhorse instruments for me usually runs in the $800 to $1200 range. Less is better, but I'd rather just buy quality to begin with.

Honestly, if you re-introduce the cruise bass line, and keep the same level of quality, and offer a 5'er that is 34" scale and a full 19mm spacing at bridge, I would seriously be looking at it. Perhaps offer other pickup options on it? Maybe a MM one (probably need a pre for this option) as well as a J/J one.

PS: It may be silly, but I am MUCH more interested in instruments produced domestically. Even when the quality level is the same, I gravitate towards basses made in US.