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Double Bass Hand position/finger choice when playing fourths

riffaday

riffaday

Guest
Jun 21, 2012
8
0
Belgium
#1
Hi

I am just playing the DB for 6 months so this question might sound trivial to some of you but here it goes anyway.

I was wondering what the general consensus is in terms of which finger to use when playing notes that are directly above each other like for instance: fourths or the fifth and the octave...

I now that it's necessary in order to maintain good intonation, to use one finger per note in the different positions. But this is where my problem starts. When I need to play notes that are directly above/below eachother I tend to twist/pivot my hand so I can play these notes with two fingers. This is something I'm used to do while playing electric (fretted) bass.

When I do this, I often have bad intonation because my two fingers aren't perfectly above eachother.

So my question is, how do you deal with this problem? Just with one finger? Do you "snap" the joint of your finger to play it kind of barred? Do it like I'm doing it but with more practice and thus better intonation or are there other ways to do this?
 
#3
You don't have to "snap the joint" to bar the note, using a different part of the finger might be the solution.

It also depends where the fourth is, personally I will bar it until the curve of the neck, then when its almost thumb position I'll do 1 on the lower note and 2 on the higher one. However, it's all situational.
 
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#4
riffaday said:
Hi

I am just playing the DB for 6 months so this question might sound trivial to some of you but here it goes anyway.

I was wondering what the general consensus is in terms of which finger to use when playing notes that are directly above each other like for instance: fourths or the fifth and the octave...

I now that it's necessary in order to maintain good intonation, to use one finger per note in the different positions. But this is where my problem starts. When I need to play notes that are directly above/below eachother I tend to twist/pivot my hand so I can play these notes with two fingers. This is something I'm used to do while playing electric (fretted) bass.

When I do this, I often have bad intonation because my two fingers aren't perfectly above eachother.

So my question is, how do you deal with this problem? Just with one finger? Do you "snap" the joint of your finger to play it kind of barred? Do it like I'm doing it but with more practice and thus better intonation or are there other ways to do this?
Click to expand...
Wow, six months and you've already discovered the most annoying part about the instrument. Good for you!

I assume when you say "above" or "below", you mean "next to" or "across"-- remember the neck is positioned vertically, so some of our nomenclature might be different from bass guitar players.

Fifths are easy enough. In low positions, you pretty much have to use 1 and 4. In thumb position, you can use 1 and 3 or thumb with 1 or 2 (or 3, screw it). You have to keep your hand and wrist more or less square to the neck, or your fingers will be at odd angles and the intonation becomes difficult.

Fourths take a bit more patience. In low positions, you will usually want to bar the strings with one finger. At first, this will probably be easiest with the second finger, but eventually you will want to be able to use 1, 2, and 4. This obviously requires your finger to be flat. I know some teachers don't recommend it, but they are definitively wrong. This is an essential skill. Again, you need to keep your hand/wrist parallel to the neck, or the finger won't lie straight across.

In thumb position, you would typically use a "forked" hand position. This means putting 2 and 1 across from each other, or 3 and 2 -- I prefer the latter since it requires less wrist rotation, but to each his own. If your thumb isn't too knobby and you have a high tolerance for pain, you can also use that to bar across.
 
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#5
When playing with the bow (which I do only rarely) I'll often use the same finger for an ascending 4th. For descending 4ths, especially when playing pizz, I'll often use two fingers so that a legato articulation is possible. You have already discovered that the fingers will never line up in traditional hand position. The trick is to consider trying to line up two fingers across two strings as inherently unusual and therefore nontraditional, and then to look further up the hand/wrist/arm/elbow etc. for the lever that can line up the fingers to play the 4th in tune. While the source of that motion is actually in the torso, it's usually easiest to gauge by the position of the elbow. A good way to practice these two finger 4ths is to play them as double stops; since the 4th is a perfect interval, you should be able to dial it in to the point where there is no dissonant "beating" of the interval when both notes are sounding together. At that point, check out what your elbow had to do to get there (it will be slightly different with different finger groups). Last, remember that this is an advanced technique, and one that will only work as well as your expectation of pitch and your technique will allow.

A good rule of thumb for you as a beginner might be: always try to play the 4th with one finger, and spend a good amount of time focusing on the technique of sliding the finger from one adjacent string to the next with as little wasted motion as possible, and focusing on getting as legato a result as possible. When you can do this well, you'll have a better idea of when to attempt a more advanced (and therefore more difficult) solution. My personal "formula" for deciding when to play a two finger 4th is that it's worthwhile to attempt when the reward of the true legato articulation is greater than the risk of the possible intonation issues that it could cause. Obviously, there are a lot of variables in this formula for each person.
 
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#6
Ascending 4ths where the first note is played with finger #1: use finger 1 for both notes. If the phrasing is legato, the notes can be barred with practice. If the phrasing calls for a distinct break between the notes, the tip of the finger can be moved to the second note, but it is still the same finger.

For situations where you play a note with finger 1, then the ascending 5th with finger 4, the n the octave as a 4th above, I would use finger 4 for both the 5th and the octave. Phrasing mentioned above still applies
 
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#7
Ascending 4ths where the first note is played with finger #1: use finger 1 for both notes. If the phrasing is legato, the notes can be barred with practice. If the phrasing calls for a distinct break between the notes, the tip of the finger can be moved to the second note, but it is still the same finger.

For situations where you play a note with finger 1, then the ascending 5th with finger 4, the n the octave as a 4th above, I would use finger 4 for both the 5th and the octave. Phrasing mentioned above still applies
 
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#8
Thank you all for trying to help me. It has been very helpful to understand what to do in certain situations. The problem with fourths I had occurred most when bowing fast legato passages and my solution was to either bar it (like I would do on electric bass) and thus losing the arched "c-shape" but sounding in tune. Now i see that this isn't a faux pas on the double bass and that it's perfectly fine to do this if the situation calls for it.

The "double stop" method that Chris talked about is indeed harder to achieve at this moment with my current knowledge of handling this new beast of an instrument. But I'll use your tip to first practice this hand position with sounding both notes like a double stop and get some muscle memory through that exercise.

By the way I laughed at the remark by Paul because I do tend to think of the notes as the notes on my electrical bass (horizontal) instead of the upright (vertical). It's funny how I keep referencing everything to the (for me at least) old way of playing bass. So in the future I'll try to think more as an upright player instead of a horizontal player like I used to do ;)
 

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