Dunno. Why do people still pay huge $ for spring-wound Rolex watches that are less accurate than a $20 Timex? Because they want one I suppose.
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Hand wired, tube, 200 watts or more...
- Thread starter Eilif
- Start date
not necessarily. some pcb stuff is a pain in the rump to work on. and depending on it's construction... if you have thin traces and a thin board you have to be good with an iron or you could pop up a trace on the board. also, with tube amps you're talking about a lot of heat and a lot of voltage. you have to have a very well done pcb for something like it. it's possible. but a ptp design is much easier to work on. i have never seen a pcb that i would say is easier to work on than a ptp. also, if something goes in a ptp you only have to worry about that component and any others it might have taken out along the way. not so with pcb.
case in point... i bought a blown fender pro jr. off a guy that was worthless to him. a tube went south and took the surrounding board with it. because of the pcb construction method they took... the only thing you could do was rip out the whole inside of the amp and put a whole new inside in it. so i did. i ripped all the pcb stuff out and put a ptp marshall 18watt circuit in there. i can tell you now that if a tube has a catastrophic failure you won't have to replace the whole circuit. you'll only have to replace the tube and maybe the tube socket and maybe a few components.
i don't have anything wrong with pcb construction if it is done well. i hate to say it but mesa, as unethical as they are, have great pcb construction. soldano also does a great job. one thing he got right is don't put the tubes on a pcb. you're just asking for trouble there.
there is no sonic difference (to the average human ear - including my own) to a well done pcb and a well done ptp. but the ability to fix an amp - a well laid out ptp wins every time hands down. and if i'm going to have the voltage and heat required for a bass amp, i too would look for a ptp construction. i personally would just get a gk and call it a day.
have fun in your search.
a little ps...
the other advantage to ptp is the ability to mod. with a ptp you can change a resistor or cap as many times as you want to get the sound you're looking for. you are limited on the amount of times you can heat up a pcb before traces start popping off.
the other advantage to ptp is the ability to mod. with a ptp you can change a resistor or cap as many times as you want to get the sound you're looking for. you are limited on the amount of times you can heat up a pcb before traces start popping off.
5 reasons I can count (in no particular order)
1)can afford it
2)status
3)beauty (it IS, after all, functional art/Jewelry
4)appreciation of engineering
5)batteries are evil and to be avoided when feasible
Back to the thread, it sounds silly to me that if the OP likes the AD200 then he'll buy another head that "should" sound like it. If you like the AD200, buy it. You like Ampeg, buy that. Simplify
Hi Eilif,
You need a MYWATT 200
Link Removed
or a MYWATT 400
Link Removed
handbuilt Boutique-Amps made in Germany.
Here are some soundsamples:
Link Removed
and here is a description:
Link Removed
In Germany the MYWATT 200 costs about 1.000 Euro (roundabout $ 1.400); but I don't know, how much shipping and taxes will cost.
(Sorry for my english; I'm from Frisia)
You need a MYWATT 200
Link Removed
or a MYWATT 400
Link Removed
handbuilt Boutique-Amps made in Germany.
Here are some soundsamples:
Link Removed
and here is a description:
Link Removed
In Germany the MYWATT 200 costs about 1.000 Euro (roundabout $ 1.400); but I don't know, how much shipping and taxes will cost.
(Sorry for my english; I'm from Frisia)
Wow, this thread filled up quick. Thanks for all your responses. Let me address a few issues to guide the discussion.
1) Hand wired, vs PCB. I want Hand Wired. I've read dozens of threads about this, so please don't turn this into a PCB vs Hand wired therad. If it matters, it's not so "Just any" tech can fix it. I'm going to take great care of this thing, but I want an amp that is going to last, and can be repaired and possibly modded over time. And YES I do want the attention to detail and "hand crafting".
2) Versatility, or lack thereof. 17 years of playing bass, and "my ideal tone" has been pretty consistant. Versatility doesn't mean scratch to me. I like deep, warm, tube tone. I'll probably always own a smaller SS amp for "versatility", portability, and smaller gigs as well, but Tube is where it's at for me.
3) Price. This is a sticking point It's got to come in under $3000 shipped, taxed, etc.
4) New vs. Old. This is a wierd one, and not entirely logical on my part. I'm definatley going to peruse the used market, but I'd like a new amp. I'm pretty young, and if this amp is going to be the keeper, I'd like to be the one to put all the miles onto it.
5) The " if I like Orange, get Electric or if I like Hiwatt get Reeves/Weber" issue.
Yes, I reallize that this isn't the ideal MO. But both the Orange (PCB) and Hiwatt(Price) don't meet my critieria, so if the sonic charachter is similar, I can use these comparisons with more readily available amps to guide my purchases of amps that are not available to try out in person. Not ideal, but better than buying with no idea what sonic territory I'm getting into.
I'll definately check out some of the other brands you mentioned. It's nice that I have some time to do my research, and hopefully find examples of some of the less common amps to try out. Additional suggestions and comments welcome of course.
Let me address a few issues to guide the discussion.1) Hand wired, vs PCB. I want Hand Wired. I've read dozens of threads about this, so please don't turn this into a PCB vs Hand wired therad. If it matters, it's not so "Just any" tech can fix it. I'm going to take great care of this thing, but I want an amp that is going to last, and can be repaired and possibly modded over time. And YES I do want the attention to detail and "hand crafting".
2) Versatility, or lack thereof. 17 years of playing bass, and "my ideal tone" has been pretty consistant. Versatility doesn't mean scratch to me. I like deep, warm, tube tone. I'll probably always own a smaller SS amp for "versatility", portability, and smaller gigs as well, but Tube is where it's at for me.
3) Price. This is a sticking point It's got to come in under $3000 shipped, taxed, etc.
4) New vs. Old. This is a wierd one, and not entirely logical on my part. I'm definatley going to peruse the used market, but I'd like a new amp. I'm pretty young, and if this amp is going to be the keeper, I'd like to be the one to put all the miles onto it.
5) The " if I like Orange, get Electric or if I like Hiwatt get Reeves/Weber" issue.
Yes, I reallize that this isn't the ideal MO. But both the Orange (PCB) and Hiwatt(Price) don't meet my critieria, so if the sonic charachter is similar, I can use these comparisons with more readily available amps to guide my purchases of amps that are not available to try out in person. Not ideal, but better than buying with no idea what sonic territory I'm getting into.
I'll definately check out some of the other brands you mentioned. It's nice that I have some time to do my research, and hopefully find examples of some of the less common amps to try out. Additional suggestions and comments welcome of course.
I'm an old SVT guy, but if were looking to replace it with something new, the Reeves amp is the best I've played through. It's looks to be really well built, too.
2K is a lot of dough, but over a lifetime not so much.
2K is a lot of dough, but over a lifetime not so much.
Benjamin Strange
Commercial User
- Dec 25, 2002
- 9,737
- 310
- 49
- Disclosures
- Owner / Tech: Strange Guitarworks
Only parts - but much of them are on PCB.
I was going ask why the handwired thing as well, but it seems you have your reasons.
You don't know what you're asking and just to underscore that, the Allesandro is the ONLY amp mentioned in this thread at all that meets that criteria. ALL of the others use PCB's, which is not a bad thing. "Hand-wiring" being automatically superior in terms of contruction is just a myth popular with guitards anyway. Rather than argue about it, why don't you given an example of an amp that you think you would like for this reason?
I'm not going to argue with anyone, though I admit I may have mixed up my terms. Perhaps "point to point" is the term I should have used.
I wasn't aware that Reeves and Electric have PCB's. You seem to know alot about this, please clarify for me.
As for the Allesandro, it's not nearly powerfull enough, and not at all designed for what I am looking to do.
- Aug 25, 2007
- 835
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- Disclosures
- I manufacture for several companies including but not limited to: Bridge City Sound, Catalinbread, more.
I think the most common (informed) answer to that question would be ease of modding. Not sure if that applies here.
To answer the original question: Traynor YBA-3A Super Custom Special. Awesome amp if you can find one, probably both better and cheaper than anything else mentioned yet. Not a ton of em out there though.
..which is the answer!
To use government procurement-speak terms, the OP is more concerned with the "total life cycle costs" than "procurement." Eg, he's willing to pay more to have a long term repairable. In that case (and it's perfectly legit, I have a spring wound watch on right now), I would look at the MyWatts from GE.
Ease of modding is something that I have been thinking about. I also like the ease of un-modding that point-to-point offers.
A YBA-3A Super Custom Special would be amazing! It's the only one of the early Traynor's that has enough watts for me. I look for them occasionally on ebay, but I've yet to see one.
"Total life cycle" is one of the biggest factors for me. When I add up what I've spent on Amps and Combos (not standa-alone cabs) in my 17 years of playing, it comes to about the cost of a Reeves or Electric. Half of those amps I've owned have died in one way or another that made them not worth it for me to repair.
I plan on playing for another 30 or so years, so why not get an amp that is going to last (and maybe even hold it's value) until then?
I don't know of any terminal strip point-to-point (hand wired) bass amps other than HIWATT/REEVES. There are some lower powered boutique guitar amps ...
The circuit has to be pretty simple to get away with not using printed circuit boards. Most players want features like power (200+ watts), selectable midrange, active boost/cut eq, direct out ... which add enough complexity to make hand wiring essentally unworkable.
I'd encourage you to reconsider the hand-wired issue. It doesn't buy you better sound. Most great amps have printed circuit boards. The SVT has always had them.
It sounds like you're not interested in the SVT so I'd recommend trying out the Peavey VB-2. Other than hand wiring it's a perfect fit to what you want and it sounds really good. It reminds me of a HIWATT 200 upgraded with modern features (active input, midrange select, direct out). It's priced at an amazingly low $900 too.
Made in Meridian Mississippi, USA.
The circuit has to be pretty simple to get away with not using printed circuit boards. Most players want features like power (200+ watts), selectable midrange, active boost/cut eq, direct out ... which add enough complexity to make hand wiring essentally unworkable.
I'd encourage you to reconsider the hand-wired issue. It doesn't buy you better sound. Most great amps have printed circuit boards. The SVT has always had them.
It sounds like you're not interested in the SVT so I'd recommend trying out the Peavey VB-2. Other than hand wiring it's a perfect fit to what you want and it sounds really good. It reminds me of a HIWATT 200 upgraded with modern features (active input, midrange select, direct out). It's priced at an amazingly low $900 too.
Made in Meridian Mississippi, USA.
Ok, Here's the situation. I've been give the ok to get my dream amp when my wife gets out of school! This will be in a year and a half, so I am planning ahead hoping to gather all the info I need by then. I've been inspired by my father's philosophy to start acquiring gear that won't have to be replaced, and can be serviced and repaired virtually forever. Thus I am looking for a bass amp that is...
1) All tube
2) Hand wired (NO PCB!)
3) 200 watts or more
4) less than 3,000 dollars
5) US or Euro construction
I like deep, round tone, and currently have a Traynor YBA200 that I could be happy with for years, but I realize that it isn't "the one". As a general barometer of tone, I do like the Ampeg CL type of tone, perhaps even more than my Traynor.
Here's the amps I've researched, and issues I am facing.
1) Electric "green" amps. The amp that the Orange was. It's going to be nearly impossible to find one to try out, but I think I can find an Orange AD200 (not handwired anymore:scowl
2) Reeves. This one was reviewed in Bass Player, and if the pics are correct, the interior on this one looks really nice. I like the fact that it has more -but not too many- features(Balanced out, active/passive inputs, etc). It will likely be nearly impossible to find to play. It may be possible to find a HIWATT, which I have rejected based on cost. Any major differences between the HIWATT and the Reeves? Anyone have any comments on this one?
3) Weber. Another HIWATT clone, this one from Germany. Anyone played one or even know what one costs in USD?
There was one other handmade amp I found whose name escapes me, but I couldn't stomach the silver "L" swipe motif that graced it's exterior. Are there any others I should be aware of?
Elif you might try having one built.
An all tube 300 watt Tube head with turret board construction could esily be built for you at a non Boutique Price.
Talk to Steve at SDG Vintage (tell him Red Planet sent you).
Invalid Link Removed
He will pretty much build you anything you want in a Turret Board Contsruction. Have him install the Jensen Paper in Oil Caps.
Though if you are 1 1/2 years out you may want to wait a while before you decide on anything. A lot can change in that amount of time.
An all tube 300 watt Tube head with turret board construction could esily be built for you at a non Boutique Price.
Talk to Steve at SDG Vintage (tell him Red Planet sent you).
Invalid Link Removed
He will pretty much build you anything you want in a Turret Board Contsruction. Have him install the Jensen Paper in Oil Caps.
Though if you are 1 1/2 years out you may want to wait a while before you decide on anything. A lot can change in that amount of time.
contact paul ruby and see what he can do for you. a handwired bass amp is going to be expensive just because of the iron and tubes. start adding in the man hours and it get's pricy. but paul ruby knows his stuff and is very helpful. email him and tell him what you're looking for and if he can help you out.
paulamps
paulamps
"Point to point" is an equally useless criteria. Some of the hardest amps to troubleshoot and mod are p-t-p. (I've got an old p-t-p Silvertone I'll let you try and follow the circuit sometime.) There's nothing wrong with a PCB, and in a lot of cases, a PCB is more robust and easier to service than a breadboard/p-t-p amp. As KPAX mentioned, SVT's have always used PCB's, just as an example. By requiring an amp that is "p-t-p" or "handwired," you automatically rule out MOST of the great tube amps out there for no good reason.
A few stellar designs are p-t-p, like old Hiwatts or the new Reeves, which I overlooked earlier, but that is just the icing on the cake. Their main strengths are that they are superior designs with much higher quality parts, not how those parts are connected. BTW, I would like to point out that unlike most of the others who are talking to you about PCB's, I am an actual service tech who knows what it's like to dive into an amp.
I agree with PBG about the point to point amps not really being all that easy to service. I much prefer the Turret Board amps as they are usually very easy to mod and service.
I was on this same quest a few years ago and here is what I did.
I picked up a heavily modded Sound City L200+ off of Craigslist for $200. I stripped out all of the extra gain stages and funky "god only knows what they did" mods and everything else in the amp. I left the tube sockets, the Partridge transformers, the switches and neons and the turret boards. I build a mid 70's Hiwatt DR-201 pre-amp onto the Sound City turret board and then rebuilt the Sound City power amp section with all new parts. I kept the power supply design but replaced all of the parts with new (filter caps, diodes, dropping resistors).
I put JJ KT88's in the power amp section and scored a bunch of "Bogen" labeled Mullard pre-amp tubes for the pre-amp.
My total cost for parts on this was about $250.
So with the cost of the amp included I am into this amp less than $500 and a couple days of soldering and wiring.
Now, I'm an amp tech so doing this work was easy enough for me. If you had to pay someone to do it for you I'm sure you could still come in at less than 1/2 your budget for what basically ends up being a brand new amp, hand built to your specs, and with a cool vintage vibe as well.
I know I'm not the only one to have gone this route with the Sound City amps and I think they are one of the least expensive options for getting a 200 watt Hiwatt clone.
This amp sounds AMAZING, so good that pretty much nothing compares to it.
Just though I'd throw another option out there for you.
I was on this same quest a few years ago and here is what I did.
I picked up a heavily modded Sound City L200+ off of Craigslist for $200. I stripped out all of the extra gain stages and funky "god only knows what they did" mods and everything else in the amp. I left the tube sockets, the Partridge transformers, the switches and neons and the turret boards. I build a mid 70's Hiwatt DR-201 pre-amp onto the Sound City turret board and then rebuilt the Sound City power amp section with all new parts. I kept the power supply design but replaced all of the parts with new (filter caps, diodes, dropping resistors).
I put JJ KT88's in the power amp section and scored a bunch of "Bogen" labeled Mullard pre-amp tubes for the pre-amp.
My total cost for parts on this was about $250.
So with the cost of the amp included I am into this amp less than $500 and a couple days of soldering and wiring.
Now, I'm an amp tech so doing this work was easy enough for me. If you had to pay someone to do it for you I'm sure you could still come in at less than 1/2 your budget for what basically ends up being a brand new amp, hand built to your specs, and with a cool vintage vibe as well.
I know I'm not the only one to have gone this route with the Sound City amps and I think they are one of the least expensive options for getting a 200 watt Hiwatt clone.
This amp sounds AMAZING, so good that pretty much nothing compares to it.
Just though I'd throw another option out there for you.
