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HARDCORE GUITARIST TONE ISSUES!!!!

#24
Shovelbone said:
Its like a jazz guitarist told me once.... with enough distortion and effects you can cover up the flaws in your playing most of the time!
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Yeah, almost every flaw except a mushy voice. OP, tell yer boy the audience doesn't care what notes he's playing; they care what the band sounds like. His first job is to make a series of pleasing sounds at the appropriate moments. If he doesn't have the ears to fix this yet, then perhaps your other guitarist can help.

If the distorted twanger can't find a reasonable voice on his instrument, then he can't contribute anything positive to the band's sound. To me, that seems like a stopper.
 
#26
DavePlaysBass said:
Single coils on guitars need tubes. There is probably improvement to be had where he is at but a Behringer solid state amp with single coils sounds like a bad recipe.
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The Behringer he has is probably one of their Line 6 modeler clones. Between that and the Boss GT-8 he probably has a plethora of usable tones at his fingertips and just has no idea (or intuition) on how to find them.
 
#27
thesteve said:
The Behringer he has is probably one of their Line 6 modeler clones. Between that and the Boss GT-8 he probably has a plethora of usable tones at his fingertips and just has no idea (or intuition) on how to find them.
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IME with BOSS digital effects (BR-864, GT-6B), I am pretty under impressed. The amp modeling in the GT-6B I played was very dissapointing. As for the Behringer, I can only imagine what that would sound like. Playing at home is one thing. Trying to get a sound you can crank at 100dB and get paid is another.
 
#28
DavePlaysBass said:
IME with BOSS digital effects (BR-864, GT-6B), I am pretty under impressed. The amp modeling in the GT-6B I played was very dissapointing. As for the Behringer, I can only imagine what that would sound like. Playing at home is one thing. Trying to get a sound you can crank at 100dB and get paid is another.
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Depending on what they're trying to do with it, it may or may not work. I've seen bands on the local scene get very high sound quality with Behringer amps. I've heard the Boss modeling in the GT-8 was much improved.

Either way, it sounds like this guitarist is being held back by the fact that he doesn't know how to tweak his gear to fit with the band. It doesn't matter if he's using cheap gear or boutique gear, the way he's setting his stuff up is what is limiting him from sounding good. I totally agree that the gear the guy is using may in fact be terrible and that a gear upgrade could be in store, but what good is it to have a member of your band drop hundreds of dollars in gear when they still won't have any clue how to make their new expensive gear sound any better than their old mediocre gear.
 
#29
I suggest turning off the distortion, adjusting everything so the the vol and tone are "likeable". Then start with the pedal and see what you can do. Maybe, as part of the next rehearsal, take an hour or two and one of the guys adjust the pedal while the guitarist is playing his part for some of the tunes (no band playing). Also, the Strat has many tones selections so figure that in while his tone is adjusted.

Then, during this test, the band can jump in and play part of a tune to hear how he sounds in the mix. Repeat this process until everyone is happy.

Be sure and write down the setting each time you arrive at a tone you like.

See if you can help the guy out. Tell him this is not a ego thing, but all the guys in the band agree that his tone needs to be shaped differently to fit in with the rest of the group.

See how it goes.

Also, maybe he can play through the other guitarist's amp as part of the test.
 
#30
I suggest lessons. I can take any guitar and make it sing through any amp because I knwo hwo to EQ and how to pick. Some guys are just cluesless all around and the wrong pick attack can cause tinny, grating, horrible sounds. Especially if it's through effects and cheap SS.
 
#32
He needs time to find his tone. Really, being able to craft a tone is half of playing the instrument. I was interested in learning the Japanese shaku-hachi, which is a bamboo flute, and was told it takes 3 years to learn to play well and 5 more to get good tones.

What role does he play in the band? rhythm, lead, a mix of both? What bands are you trying to sound like? Maybe we can give some general pointers as to what others have used.
 
#34
First off, tell him to drop the Behringer. There are WAY better amps for the same money. A vintage music man 2x10 or Roland jazz chorus can be had in the $350-$500 range.

I can't tell by your description what sound you're going for. You've mentioned hardcore, and alt-rock (the latter being a pretty general term). If you want some hardcore crunch out of a strat, I have two suggestions- (1) Big Muff. I don't why this particular distortion pedal works better with single coils, it just does. And, there's less to fiddle with, which sounds like a good thing for this guy; or, (2) if he insists on the Boss, have him buy a hot rail (it's basically a humbucker turned on its side to fit in a single coil slot). Seymour Duncan makes a nice one.

If you want a good alt-rock sound, go with the aforementioned amps; or, if funds provide, buy a really good vintage amp like a Fender Twin reverb, Orange, Vox AC30, etc. There are good tones to be had in Boss distortion pedals, but only after much tweakage and with very particular pedals. He might try an ibanez tube screamer, or even Boss's blues driver.
 
#35
Too many guys missing the point mostly due to youth and having had the luxury of buying whatever equipment they wanted.

We had the same problem in our band with our one of our 19 year old guitarists. One was amazing, the other sounded just as you describe. Here was the kicker. They were playing the exact same rigs...guitar, pedal, head, cab. Your situation sounds like operator error, a guy too much in love with distortion and his own sound to get with the program and put the band sound in front of everything else. That was what our problem turned out to be.

Tube amps won't help this. Spending another grand on a vintage amp won't help this. A swift kick in the *** might help this.
 
#37
Ampeg SVT said:
I agree, I have never seen a harcore band using a Strat when we played with them, they all had humbuckers.

Also I think the problem could be the amp, its all solidstate right? Some SS guitar amps sound terrible and tinny. If you want him to get a warm tone make him get a tube amp. When I played guitar I never plugged into a SS because I saw my guitarist buddy play a Spider III with ear bursting results, it was terrible.

Im probably just a purist, however has he tried different settings and such?
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i've seen and heard iron maiden live and they use strats.modified and stock axes.lest i forget 'slayer'.:bassist:
 
#39
Funkplayer said:
Hey

yeh had that a few times (more often than not actually) with most of the bands i grew up playing with. I doubt it's the guys gear cos it sounds like fairly decent stuff. More likely its just he's going way too overboard with eq settings and the overdrive.
Really cant stand these peaople who think they need the distortion cranked right up so much that you cant hear what their playing and it just sounds like tinny sludge sticking out from the rest of the band.

Try getting him to turn the overdrive down a bit and playing with amp settings/ fx settings till he's got a sound that fits with the band a bit better.
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I auditioned a guitarist a week ago, rented a rehearsal studio with a backlin, Marshall Stacks, I got scared...

The guitard (first time calling a guitarist that!) didnt know how to work an amp. Granted, I realize it's not HIS amp, but when I went over and simply hit the channel switch and got rid of all the nasty hum he'd been giving off I thought, this guy does not know what he's doing...
 
#40
Shovelbone said:
Its like a jazz guitarist told me once.... with enough distortion and effects you can cover up the flaws in your playing most of the time!
Click to expand...


amen to that, why else would i have so many little boxes arrayed like a colourful wonderland in front of me?


but seriously, yes. take the offending guitarist aside, and politely explain the issues, reminding him that it' s all about how the band sounds, not him, so it's not a personal criticism. then you and the other guitarist can have an input into getting a good sound that works for everyone. perhaps you could make a note of his "settings" if he gets precious, so it isn't all lost when you start twiddling those knobs. if he simply doesn't know what he's doing, he's learnt something valuable as a musician and the problem's solved! if he refuses this helpful advice from his bandmates, perhaps because he thinks he knows best (and guitarists generally do) there are plenty of other guitarists who DO have killer tone out there.


it's just finding one who is capable of playing with a band however, rather than widdling endlessly, is a different story... :ninja:
 

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