Hartke 10" 'Substitute' Speakers

[MountainMikeCS]

Hi All,

I'm looking for replacement speakers for two Hartke 2x10 speakers in a custom cabinet I bought that was made from an old Hartke 2x10 3500 combo - someone cut off the blown head and used it as a cabinet. It sounds great - its front ported and blows away a Hartke 210 XL I also have.

The converted combo cab was purchased for only $50 b/c it had a blown speaker. The 2x10 XL I also got cheap b/c of the same reason. I took the one good speaker from the 210 XL and put it in the converted 210 cab and it sounds great - but it isn't very loud. The XL speaker can't handle any real volume. Probably b/c it was designed for a sealed cab and not a ported one.

Hartke is out of stock on speakers for both the converted 210 cab (the old 3500 210 combe) and the 210xl cab. I waited a month. Now they need another month. They are on order, but they don't know when they will come in. Bla bla bla.

My question - the converted Hartke 210 sounds great - its the perfect combo of 210 sounds along with ported cab warmth. But, I don't absolutely need the Harke sound here, and I don't want to buy any more used speakers. I just want a clean sound I'm used to with Hartke - the "metalic", super-trebly side of the sound isn't really necessary.

My question - do you folks recommend any new 10" speakers that can give - not the Hartke sound - but a well-rounded, clear, clean sound to replace the old Hartke speakers in my converted 210? Something maybe 200Watts or up 16Ohm 10" speakers would be ideal. I just want to get a clean sound - it doesn't have to be Hartke sound.

Thanks!

-Mike

 

[basscooker]

Cut your losses; don't spend another dime on that rig. Start over, and cancel your speaker(s) on order.

My $0.02

Actually, if hartke is selling you (when they can) a new OEM pair of speakers for the unmolested enclosure 210xl you keep that one.

I'm not trying to troll you here. Please read on.

The other cab I dunno. Everything about your description says it should be a horrible rattly farty mess just making sound! But it seems that isn't the case. Either way, though, typically designers will pick a driver, then build the appropriate enclosure FOR the physical properties of the driver. This means that the volume of airspace, the use of ported or sealed construction, and the size of porting if used are all dictated by the specific parameters of the original speaker.

I'm not sure your unique enclosure will be quick and easy. You'll have to work backwards a bit. Finding a driver for an existing box that's ported isn't impossible. It just takes a little patience and homework. It may still not work out, but still cost money you would have for better, ready to play, gear. I suggest let it go.

Good luck with whichever direction you choose.

But first, is it just for the house? Is the 210xl working right now or no? Do you need two different pairs?

Internal dimensions and port shape, length, diameter would help.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

Cut your losses; don't spend another dime on that rig. Start over, and cancel your speaker(s) on order.

My $0.02

Actually, if hartke is selling you (when they can) a new OEM pair of speakers for the unmolested enclosure 210xl you keep that one.

I'm not trying to troll you here. Please read on.

The other cab I dunno. Everything about your description says it should be a horrible rattly farty mess just making sound! But it seems that isn't the case. Either way, though, typically designers will pick a driver, then build the appropriate enclosure FOR the physical properties of the driver. This means that the volume of airspace, the use of ported or sealed construction, and the size of porting if used are all dictated by the specific parameters of the original speaker.

I'm not sure your unique enclosure will be quick and easy. You'll have to work backwards a bit. Finding a driver for an existing box that's ported isn't impossible. It just takes a little patience and homework. It may still not work out, but still cost money you would have for better, ready to play, gear. I suggest let it go.

Good luck with whichever direction you choose.

But first, is it just for the house? Is the 210xl working right now or no? Do you need two different pairs?

Internal dimensions and port shape, length, diameter would help.

I agree with @basscooker on this.
There are many things that come in to play with speaker parameters (Theile/Small Parameters) and bass cabinet design. The odds of randomly hitting something that works well is very small.
Thiele/Small parameters - Wikipedia

 

[MountainMikeCS]

Yep @basscooker and @Old Garage-Bander - I thought it might be a waste of time - but worth checking if anyone tried it and had good results.

My converted 210 cab and the 210xl cabs are nice cabs for their dimensions and weight - especially the 210XL - but I would never buy another 210xl unless I heard it live, inside and outside, and was amazed. The converted cab is a little bit of magic to my ears - I'll wait until Hartke has new speakers available for that one.

I haven't heard anything that sounds quite like it.

 

[6thplanet]

Maybe find a used 4/10 on GC or MF?

 

[MountainMikeCS]

Thanks - I actually just got rid of my Hartke 410 XL - was too heavy to transport - or even more around the house. Getting old...
I took the 410 XL speakers out to put in the other cabs but they blat too much at higher volumes and are not made for the sealed cab so blat like crazy in there. Live and learn.
I sold the empty cab to a props dealer out of NYC for $75. Go figure!

As for cabs to use - I just bought a GK 212 Neo - first new cab purchase in 24 years! It is exactly what I need for med-larger gigs. Would like to get the converted Harke 210 working with it to pair with it or use for small gigs and jams.

 

[agedhorse]

Try some other cabinets before assuming that there’s any magic going on.

 

[MountainMikeCS]

Try some other cabinets before assuming that there’s any magic going on.

Trying new cabs - I wish I could. The challenge for me is finding a good variety to test. I live a little more than one hour north of NYC and checking with the local stores they all stock plenty of the following new cabs:

Fender
Ampeg
Hartke - Mostly Sam Ash
Phil Jones

Then there is the rare appear of these in cabs or combo form:

Peavey
Orange
Markbass
Trace Elliot
Quilter

And rarely does anyone near me (that I've been able to determine by calling in advance) stock these:

Aquilar
Trickfish
Bare
Mesa Boogie
Darkglass
Everything else.

So - I either hear it in the wild (which is the case with the compact Peavey Headliner I heard someone play on a boardwalk gig), or get lucky and find a used one to try. Other than that, its all searching on Youtube with a good pair of headphones and finding reviews recorded with good mics.

 

[agedhorse]

That's still better than assuming something that may not likely be true.

 

[MountainMikeCS]

That's still better than assuming something that may not likely be true.

Of course.

So - of the cabs I've listed above I've tried some Fenders, Ampegs, Hartke's, Phil Jones, Orange, Markbass, Trace Elliot and Quilter cabs as well as a few GKs. That's why I just bought a new GK 212 Neo as my main cab - sounds amazing and works great with my new Aquilar ToneHammer head. Great range of sound. It also sounds well with my older Hartke HA4000 head.

I also have an SWR Goliath II Junior 210 cab - a real beast - that unfortunately is on the way out. Its quite old and the speakers are dying.

For all the cabs I've tried I haven't found anything yet that's a 2x10 that has the sound of this converted Hartke combo cab I have. Its a 'warm' version of the Hartke sound with nice lows. And it only weights 40 lbs.

I'd like to try more of the newer Peavy cabs but noone stocks them around here - I might have to head into NYC to the Sam Ash there but I've heard that even the NYC stores don't stock that much any more.

 

[Plain Old Barry]

I'd like to try more of the newer Peavy cabs but noone stocks them around here - I might have to head into NYC to the Sam Ash there but I've heard that even the NYC stores don't stock that much any more.

NYC has two Guitar Centers and Sam Ash within easy subway distance. You can check in-stock for all three online.

 

[MountainMikeCS]

NYC has two Guitar Centers and Sam Ash within easy subway distance. You can check in-stock for all three online.

Maybe within easy subway distance for you - the city is an hour away without traffic, when the wife can spare 3 or more hours to watch our kid. So, getting to NYC isn't easy.

I've been using the inventory checker at each site for Sam Ash and Guitar Center - t

Right now all Guitar Center stores within 100 miles of me stock (including all in NYC) only stock 2 types of Fender 410s, two types of Ampegs, three Markbass and one Darkglass.

Right now all the Sam Ash stores in NYC - Manhattan, Queens and Brooklyn - as well as all stores in New Jersey and Connecticut - stock some Hartke, Fender and Ampeg cabs and an Aguilar 112.

So - my point being - that's the selection you can try at all the Guitar Center and Sam Ash stores in the tri-state area.

I also shop at Alto music - they said they can order things to try but you need to put 50% down - which they will immediately refund if you don't like it. Not the worst option in the world - I might try them in the future.

 

[Plain Old Barry]

Maybe within easy subway distance for you - the city is an hour away without traffic, when the wife can spare 3 or more hours to watch our kid. So, getting to NYC isn't easy.

I meant once you're there... I'm 30 minutes to New Haven and 90 more on the train to GCT myself. There have been times where I couldn't decide on a version of an instrument or device, and between those three stores I could try examples of all of them.

I only mentioned it in case you weren't aware, as I know of no other area with so many options so close together for hands-on comparisons. B&H is also a decent source for some items, including amps, mics, lights, etc...

 

[Dynomuttasaurus]

Going against all better advice about shapes, ports, and dimensions; I installed two Eminence Delta 10Bs in a Hartke 210xl cab a couple years ago. What I ended up with was sort of what you are describing - a tad warmer sound with great defined low-mids and fairly light-weight. I've been pairing this with a Hartke HD112 in a vertical formation for gigs. Works great.

 

[agedhorse]

Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't.

 

[Manticore]

Use what you have until you can comfortably afford what you need.

 

[MountainMikeCS]

That's still better than assuming something that may not likely be true.

What do you mean - "Assuming something..." ?

 

[MountainMikeCS]

Going against all better advice about shapes, ports, and dimensions; I installed two Eminence Delta 10Bs in a Hartke 210xl cab a couple years ago. What I ended up with was sort of what you are describing - a tad warmer sound with great defined low-mids and fairly light-weight. I've been pairing this with a Hartke HD112 in a vertical formation for gigs. Works great.

I meant once you're there... I'm 30 minutes to New Haven and 90 more on the train to GCT myself. There have been times where I couldn't decide on a version of an instrument or device, and between those three stores I could try examples of all of them.

I only mentioned it in case you weren't aware, as I know of no other area with so many options so close together for hands-on comparisons. B&H is also a decent source for some items, including amps, mics, lights, etc...

Thanks - I didn't know that B&H actually stocked amps. I see them selling them online.
I used to work near B&H downtown and shop there for computer games and accessories most weekends. "Just remember to save all the packaging and everything that came with it in case you need to do a return!" - They would always say.

 

[MountainMikeCS]

Going against all better advice about shapes, ports, and dimensions; I installed two Eminence Delta 10Bs in a Hartke 210xl cab a couple years ago. What I ended up with was sort of what you are describing - a tad warmer sound with great defined low-mids and fairly light-weight. I've been pairing this with a Hartke HD112 in a vertical formation for gigs. Works great.

Thanks @Dynomuttasaurus ! That's exactly the example I was looking for! I was looking at those Deltas - I think I'll give them a shot.

 

[agedhorse]

What do you mean - "Assuming something..." ?

Assuming a speaker sounds a certain way without actually listening to it.