Has anyone seen Bach's Cello Suite #1 tabbed for 5 or 6 string?

[Jazz Ad]

It is an organ tablature.
Organs don't have strings, therefore you don't have lines to represent them.

Wether or not you understand them is irrelevant. Point being, Bach was familiar with quick notation systems out of standard, that put the physical elements of the instrument beyond theory correct notation.
If so inclined, you can look for examples of Bach's work written in lute tablature, which may look more familiar to you.

This isn't tab. Tab is numbers on lines to tell the user where to put his finger on the strings of the instrument. That has no relation at all to what Bach did here. Besides, if you are arguably the greatest composer of your time, you can pretty much do whatever you want.

 

[lfmn16]

It is an organ tablature.
Organs don't have strings, therefore you don't have lines to represent them.

Wether or not you understand them is irrelevant. Point being, Bach was familiar with quick notation systems out of standard, that put the physical elements of the instrument beyond theory correct notation.
If so inclined, you can look for examples of Bach's work written in lute tablature, which may look more familiar to you.

I understand them as much as you do. Feel free to pontificate elsewhere.

 

[Stick_Player]

One thing for sure, Bach is/was better than anyone on this site.

 

[mambo4]

I can't read tab.
I can't read Bach's tab either.

 

[Jazz Ad]

Then why do you say it ain't tab?

 

[khutch]

I would say that the organ tablature is not "tab" either other than both have the same name. In guitar tab you don't have to know where "E" is or even how many places that particular E appears on your fingerboard. From the link above it sounds like you still have to be able to find the E on the keyboard to use organ tablature and you also have to know which E you should play at this point in the piece. Organ tablature also indicates rhythms, whereas guitar tablature doesn't normally do so. Even so along with standard notation all three are musical notation systems and they all have their uses.

I learned to read standard notation at a young age as I was learning to play the clarinet so standard notation seems natural to me even though I sill cannot sight read it on a bass guitar at anything above a snail's pace. In part that is because a guitarist has a problem that a clarinetist does not have to deal with, at least not much: every note on the guitar occurs several places, except for the very lowest and very highest notes. So you not only need to find that E when it comes up, you must also work out which string and fret you would best play it on. I have not put enough concerted effort into learning to sight read on the bass to get to the point where I can do that on the fly. Granted you don't have to be able to pick out the absolute optimum fingering on the fly but the constant need to choose between the alternatives slows me down too much. My brain hasn't learned to do that quickly yet! Tab, of course, guides you through that but as others say it does so in a way that does not teach you how to work out fingerings for yourself, nor are you guaranteed that the tab has picked out the best fingerings. Standard notation forces you to learn that and because it knows nothing about how your particular instrument is fingered you and I can both use the same Bach Cello Suite sheet music just fine even though you play a fourths tuned six string and I play a fifths tuned four string. You only need four strings if you tune in fifths ....

 

[lushba]

Not everyone WANTS to learn to read.

Not everyone wants to learn to read - and they shall suffer the consequences.

 

[Woodstockz]

Yes, I realize that if I could sight read it wouldn't matter but I'm not that good at it. I've seen it done for 4 string but, having heard the piece on cello it seems that it may work better for a 5 or 6 string. Anyway, just wondering. TIA.

This is my take for anyone wanting to attempt this.
I went through this a couple of years ago, then I started playing in a band so I stopped. I just picked it up again recently.

The suites are a little confusing at first, so it would probably be good for you to understand the suites first. They were etudes, but also, they were the dance music of the time.
There are 6 suites, and each suite has 6 parts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cello_Suites_(Bach)

The most well known is the prelude to the first suite, and that is the one that you are probably referring to. The prelude to the first suite was played in the Russel Crowe movie "Master and Commander" when they reached the Galapagos islands. They used the Yo-Yo Ma version for the movie. The other suites are cool too, but the prelude sounds best to me.

The suites sound best on the cello, but the electric bass is cool too. The bass is an octave lower than the cello. (The upright got the name double bass because they used to double the cello parts an octave lower. )
There are three ways that I have seen to play on the bass:
- in the key of G in the upper register (like on the cello),
- an octave lower, in the key of G in the lower register
- and transposed in the key of C in between.

I suggest this:

1. Look on youtube for a version that you like. When you have found the one that you like, play it over and over to get it into your head.
I like this one by Denise Djokic.


2. Whether you decipher standard notation or use tab, it will be slow going, so you might as well practice reading by deciphering standard notation. I suggest taking your time. Just play just a few short measures at a time each day. Play those two or three measures over and over to get them under your fingers, and let Johann Sebastian teach you how to phrase a chord or a scale. After you have gone through all of the segments, start stringing them together into larger segments. Eventually, play the whole thing.

3. Take your time and have fun.

This will take a while, but it is worth it. Good luck. My bass playing got a lot better after doing this.

 

[BassyBill]

A couple of points...

First of all, reading standard music notation is not necessarily "sight reading". Many people (including folks here on TalkBass) use the term "sight reading" when really what they mean is just "reading". Most people could acquire the major concepts needed for reading music in an afternoon. Developing your use of those concepts until you can proficiently "sight read" (take a piece of music and play it, as written, on your instrument without having to practise it first) takes longer, and obviously how long it takes to be able to do this is very much influenced by the complexity of the music. I would guess that a lot of players who can't read at all at present - say, someone who knows the names of the notes on their bass but doesn't yet know how these are represented by notation - could be sight reading straightforward bass music in a fairly short time (days rather than months).

Second point, and more specific to this thread rather than general, is that this particular piece would be a very useful tool for developing reading skills for the OP and people like him who can use tab but not standard notation. The reason I say that is due to the fact that this particular piece would really help you to learn note names on your bass and where they are on the staff, without having to worry too much about the duration of each note (they're nearly all equal). I guess you could start by printing a copy out and then just using a diagram of the staff to write the note names in above (no bass needed). Then try playing those notes in that order. Then print out another copy, DON'T write in the note names and try to follow it along finding the notes on your bass as you read each dot. Spend an hour or two doing that and you'd really learn an important chunk of what you need to get you on the path to reading.

Anyway, having said all that, I've attached a couple of files to help you out. I've transposed the original down an octave for bass as that makes sense. If you try the one without tab first in the way I've suggested, you will learn A LOT more. Maybe just "cheat" with the tab if you get stuck. I think I've earned the right to express those opinions by taking the time to help out, so please, can we have nobody piling in and squealing about how unfair I'm being to tab users.

By the way, I prepared this notation myself using a MIDI file that's in the public domain, so I don't believe I'm sharing any commercial or copyrighted work here.

 

[Rob22315]

Not generally a fan of leaving folks with the impression that not being able to read music means you should give up playing music. We forget that the reason we have a thriving music industry is because of the masses of consumers (like me) who want to enjoy playing music but aren't pro. We buy the songs, we buy the instruments, we buy the sheet music, we pay for the lessons. Maybe we play in bars or churches or just our bedrooms and basements. Whether or not we can read music (I can) is really immaterial to those things. I say encourage this gentleman's interest by providing him the tab he requested (thanks BassyBill!).

Make tabs available for whoever wants them if it will fan the flames of love of music. Encourage them to learn to read music if they want to go further.

 

[BassyBill]

FWIW, I've added another version here, this time with tab for 6 string (BEADGC). I think the software just goes for the lowest position possible (including open strings) when rescoring notation as tab, which is usually a good enough starting point. It's possible to edit it, but I guess most people will be able to work out the fingering that suits them best anyway.

I still think the version with no tab is the best one to work with.

(By the way, the main reason for me posting the version with no tab at all is because I know some players who are trying to learn to read find tab hard to resist if it's right there in front of them. The notation-only version obviously avoids that temptation.)

 

[EddiePlaysBass]

(By the way, the main reason for me posting the version with no tab at all is because I know some players who are trying to learn to read find tab hard to resist if it's right there in front of them. The notation-only version obviously avoids that temptation.)

That's me, right there. I know my earlier post may have come across as trollish or whatever, but I am one of those people who is trying to learn to read music, and I am learning it by myself. Most instruction books I have, come with tab AND notation and I'll just always reference the tab.

On another note, some people seem to forget that you can also derive which note is which from tab. Just cos there's a 0 on the second line, it don't mean you have to play an open A. The guitarist in my soon-to-be ex-band writes (and tabs) out everyone's parts. I just never agree with the finger settings on his tabs so I'll be "reading the tab" (note the quotation marks) but playing it somewhere else on the neck anyway. I can't read music (very well, as of yet) but tab is not necessarily a play-by-numbers system only (though many a bassist and guitarist use it that way).

 

[enricogaletta]

In my opinion? don't look for tab, try to push yourself and find your way to play it.
The fingering you'll find will be the best match on your playing plus you'll get serious improvements!

 

[Alex Da Silva]

If you do not wish to sight read it
You could get the notes from a 4-string tab and look for ways to accomodate them on a 5 / 6 string, it will get you thinking diferent ways to play the same notes and deciding on the "better" ones (it would be much more efficient doing the adaption from standard notation though)

 

[Pajama_Bottoms]

Standard notation has no disadvantages.

There's disadvantages to ANY communication method. Yes, it's valuable to learn to read and learning to read will cover 95% of most Western music, but you start having to making extensive modifications or additions to notate music with microtonalities, equally tempered or other alternate interval tunings, etc. Polyrythyms can also turn into a complete mess easily.

 

[RDUB]

Learn to read. It will serve you well. For me, 'sight reading' has always referred to picking up an unknown piece and reading and playing it cold. I'm not great at it, but I can get by in a pinch, as I've had to in the past. Like most things, though, the more you read the better you will get at it.

Bill, thanks for the transcription. It looks like fun, and I'll start on it tomorrow.

 

[JimmyM]

There's disadvantages to ANY communication method. Yes, it's valuable to learn to read and learning to read will cover 95% of most Western music, but you start having to making extensive modifications or additions to notate music with microtonalities, equally tempered or other alternate interval tunings, etc. Polyrythyms can also turn into a complete mess easily.

OK then, the method with the fewest disadvantages (by far) is standard notation.

 

[glorth2]

So, first I want to thank Pacman and BassyBilly for the help. Of course, BassyBilly's help wound up making the $10 I spent on the Patitucci book a waste of money. Just kidding. Anyway, I had no idea that such a simple request would turn into a debate. And, I have no intention of participating in such a debate as I don't want to make it seem as if I'm defending myself. As some have said on here, there's reading and there's sight reading. I can read some but my skills are rudimentary. As an example, I don't have the keys which would be notated by the clef memorized. The bottom line is, I'm 45. I'm not ever going to make money playing bass. I am trying to relearn the instrument after a long hiatus and I am trying to learn on a 6 string, which has its own challenges. In any event, sure, knowing how to read is better than not knowing how to read. That said, for what I would like to accomplish going forward, tab is usually fine. I recently auditioned for a cover band and had to learn more songs in a short period of time than I've ever had to learn. By using a combination of ultimate-guitar.com and maybe some youtube, I was able to learn almost all of the songs, including a few hard ones (in my book). Full disclosure, I didn't get the gig but I don't think my lack of reading ability had anything to do with it. Lack of chops, which I want to get back, might have. I mean, what am I going to do, search for the sheet music for Volbeat's Still Counting so that the tab doesn't impact my playing? I know enough theory to be able to take the tab I'm presented with and change fingering or tunings or both if I find it more efficient or comfortable. About a million years ago, when I was taking lessons, the prelude was presented to me as a finger exercise, I believe. Obviously, just playing such a piece is excellent practice. At least in my opinion. Besides this, I think it's a beautiful piece of music. So, rather than trying to learn how to read to the point of being able to play this piece, I would like to have a really like to have a shot at hearing it come out of my hands sooner rather than later. Thanks again!

 

[khutch]

A couple of points...

First of all, reading standard music notation is not necessarily "sight reading".

I am one of those who used the term sight reading and I know this. I can read standard notation for the bass guitar just fine. If you give me a bass line in standard notation you put me hours if not days ahead of where I would be if I had to pick out the same bass line on a recording. For me sight reading is when the band leader hands you a completely written out part cold and you can sit down and play through it at tempo and get more than half the notes right. I used to do that on a clarinet, I can do that when I sing bass in our church choir, I cannot do that on a bass guitar even though I know how to read standard notation. Reading music means being able to pull out pitches, durations, rhythms, dynamics, and the arrangement structure from written music. You can learn to do that without learning to play an instrument at all! And vocalists who play no instruments actually do that, it isn't just a theory. Sight reading involves forming a deep and automatic connection between musical concepts and where you need to put your fingers on a particular instrument to implement them. It is more about learning to play the instrument than it is about reading. But of course you cannot get to that point without first learning to read musical notation although you can certainly learn to do both simultaneously as so many of us did and do in school band programs and other kinds of musical lessons. My clarinet transposed music from the key of C to the key of Bb. Back in the day I could not only sight read music written for a Bb clarinet, I could sight read music written in the key of C, transposing it on the fly as I did.

I can sight read chord charts and fake a bass line from them. Give me a chart cold and I can play along with you getting more than half the notes right. So I am getting there. To a point you make later I can do this because with only one or two chords per bar I can play something simple until I am familiar enough with the piece to start adding complexity to what I am playing. Getting comfortable with playing from chord charts is an intermediate step in learning to read music. Or it could be, it is certainly not necessary and once you learn to read music reading chord sheets will be easy. I cannot sight read very well on bass but if I am familiar with the song I can often transpose it on the fly. When I transposed clarinet music I always imagined that each note was one whole step above where it was written. When I transpose on the bass I just imagine that my fingers are on the frets the music indicates rather than where they actually are in the desired key. These are two very different techniques but I find it difficult to add a random number of half steps to a given note name and work out what the new note name would be so it is easier to shift my position on the neck to where it needs to be. On the clarinet I only ever had to transpose from C to Bb and it was easy for me to visually see on the staff where the note would have to be written to make it come out on pitch and I knew the note names on the staff exceedingly well.

But I certainly agree that there are advantages to reading without ever learning to sight read. You can draw inspiration for music written for any instrument if you can learn to read standard notation. A clarinet "tab" would be hopelessly useless if you wanted to play a clarinet line on your bass. The written music works just fine! I would not let age stop you from trying to learn, certainly not if you are only 45. I am 62 and I still hope to be able to read well enough on the bass to someday say I can sight read! Bass guitar presents some interesting challenges that could arise in other instruments but generally don't as frequently. All we often get are chord charts and perhaps rehearsal recordings, or at least that is how it is in my world as a church bassist. So in the worst case you might be handed a piece of music on Sunday morning for a last minute change and then you have to not only read but sight read, compose your own part from the chords, and by the way it is in the wrong key so you need to transpose it as well. All on the fly! Oh well, at least you get a couple of run throughs in the pre-service "brush up" rehearsal!

 

[BassyBill]

So, first I want to thank Pacman and BassyBilly for the help. Of course, BassyBilly's help wound up making the $10 I spent on the Patitucci book a waste of money. Just kidding.

Of course, we get that you're kidding. Money spent on a good book is never a waste.

The bottom line is, I'm 45. I'm not ever going to make money playing bass. I am trying to relearn the instrument after a long hiatus...

I'd say you should just enjoy playing in as many ways as you can and see where your journey takes you. I too had a long break from being a musician, between the ages of about 27 and 36. I joined my current main band as a regular when I was in my forties and have now been with them ten years or so. I've made more money from gigs in my 40s and 50s than I ever made back in my teens and 20s.

Anyway, have fun with the Bach piece.