Has School Become Too Hostile to Boys?

[fhm555]

...unless we wake up real fast and take steps to correct this PC, Newspeak, 1984 world that we see developing around us....it is going to be too late...

Hate to break it to you Dave, it's already too late.

Proof is in the fact that we are all carping but not a single one of us is doing anything beyond enjoying life in what was once the greatest nation on earth as we bemoan the loss of our freedoms.

What have you organized lately? Made any calls? Rallied any support to your cause?

Or

Are you surfing the web? buying food at your choice of megamarts where you can get fresh produce that was picked in Mexico 2 days ago? Browsing the bass inventory at your local GC? Watching 5 different ball games on sunday?

We are far too selfish these days to ever come to any sort of consensus among the general population that would allow us to form a large enough block to make any difference to the political process.

In short Dave, we are too busy picking S&!T with the chickens because we've bought into the silly notion that we can have a life EXACTLY like we want it if we can just get the right politicians in office. That we can tell our stupid ignorant political opposites to step the f%(K off and there's not a thing they can do about, if we can just get OUR people elected.

It is such a foolish concept I can't imagine anyone but a totally witless clod falling for it. Oh and BTW, welcome to the land of 300 millions witless clods.

The only people who are united are the politicians, no matter the little letter following their name, and they have us by the nose and are steady kicking our collective asses because they are willing to put in the work and all we are willing to do is run our mouth.

 

[Lonesomedave]

Hate to break it to you Dave, it's already too late.

Proof is in the fact that we are all carping but not a single one of us is doing anything beyond enjoying life in what was once the greatest nation on earth as we bemoan the loss of our freedoms.

What have you organized lately? Made any calls? Rallied any support to your cause?

Or

Are you surfing the web? buying food at your choice of megamarts where you can get fresh produce that was picked in Mexico 2 days ago? Browsing the bass inventory at your local GC? Watching 5 different ball games on sunday?

We are far too selfish these days to ever come to any sort of consensus among the general population that would allow us to form a large enough block to make any difference to the political process.

In short Dave, we are too busy picking S&!T with the chickens because we've bought into the silly notion that we can have a life EXACTLY like we want it if we can just get the right politicians in office. That we can tell our stupid ignorant political opposites to step the f%(K off and there's not a thing they can do about, if we can just get OUR people elected.

It is such a foolish concept I can't imagine anyone but a totally witless clod falling for it. Oh and BTW, welcome to the land of 300 millions witless clods.

The only people who are united are the politicians, no matter the little letter following their name, and they have us by the nose and are steady kicking our collective asses because they are willing to put in the work and all we are willing to do is run our mouth.

i resent that...i never watch more than 3 games on sunday!!

and, since November (remember November?)....i have said F**k em all...

my son is 16 and i have raised him right...i'm 58 years old, and i won't be here to see the actual fallout from the situation you have described....

F E A!!

 

[LiquidMidnight]

Before the inevitable flood of responses come in as a response to that article, lamenting how PCness has ruined society, I do want to point out that, while yes, the examples cited are pretty absurd examples of PCness gone too far, at the end of the day, they are cherry-picked examples of extreme incidents and are not necessary indicative of the average school policy...which is ironic, because then the author goes on to actually cite statistics for another point.

Huh, without any irony, as I predicted, the first part of this post was accurate, and as I figured, many people ignored the second part of my post.

#screwexternalvalidity
#extremeoutliersdefinethemean
#anecdotalexamplesaretherulenottheexception

 

[mcblahflooper94]

unless we wake up real fast and take steps to correct this PC, Newspeak, 1984 world that we see developing around us....it is going to be too late

Reminds me of this video. It's satire, but it's almost too close to realistic that it's hard to laugh at.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=BU9WmcAa5So&desktop_uri=/watch?v=BU9WmcAa5So

 

[sloasdaylight]

Huh, without any irony, as I predicted, the first part of this post was accurate, and as I figured, many people ignored the second part of my post.

#screwexternalvalidity
#extremeoutliersdefinethemean
#anecdotalexamplesaretherulenottheexception

The thing about "average school policy" has me ing. More and more schools and school districts are adopting these asinine "no tolerance" policies that make these anecdotal exceptions more common for more people. My girlfriend's daughter can't have a couple pills of ibuprofen on her to help with her menstrual cramps because of a no tolerance policy on drugs in her school, so she's got to go down to the clinic when she needs them. Or for a headache. Or a sore ankle from playing soccer. Everyone has heard about the Eagle scout that got either suspended or expelled because he had a pocket knife in the back of his car.

Are some of these stories extreme outliers? Of course, however it's the extreme things that make the news, not the seemingly banal stuff that we used to be able to do, that is now considered a breach of some "no tolerance" policy.

 

[Relic]

#ALLTHISYETWELIVEINTHESAFESTTIMEINHUMANHISTORY

#SOIRONIC

 

[Mysterion]

Before the inevitable flood of responses come in as a response to that article, lamenting how PCness has ruined society, I do want to point out that, while yes, the examples cited are pretty absurd examples of PCness gone too far, at the end of the day, they are cherry-picked examples of extreme incidents and are not necessary indicative of the average school policy...which is ironic, because then the author goes on to actually cite statistics for another point.

The thing about "average school policy" has me ing. More and more schools and school districts are adopting these asinine "no tolerance" policies that make these anecdotal exceptions more common for more people. My girlfriend's daughter can't have a couple pills of ibuprofen on her to help with her menstrual cramps because of a no tolerance policy on drugs in her school, so she's got to go down to the clinic when she needs them. Or for a headache. Or a sore ankle from playing soccer. Everyone has heard about the Eagle scout that got either suspended or expelled because he had a pocket knife in the back of his car.

Are some of these stories extreme outliers? Of course, however it's the extreme things that make the news, not the seemingly banal stuff that we used to be able to do, that is now considered a breach of some "no tolerance" policy.

In fact, you were even righter than you knew.

Had anyone bothered to follow some links, they'd find that the "7-year old expelled" story was a tempest in a teapot, badly reported by a local Fox News station. The only source cited was....an interview with the 7-year old. That's pretty one-sided reportage. What really led up to the expulsion? It's probably not as sexy as "Innocent Child Deprived of Wholesome Play By PC Fascists!"

With this apocryphal tragedy as a lynchpin, it's hard to take the premise of the article seriously.

And please stop ranking on journalists as a class. Some of us are remarkably capable--when we're allowed. The playing field has changed since editorial has embraced Big Daddy Click Pimp.

 

[tastybasslines]

FWIW, I've heard of these incidents more often. I'm not saying it's completely commonplace, but as a general policy, it has gotten more adoption by schools. I base this off articles of a similar nature, that seem to pop up every month or so for me.

Is this going on EVERYWHERE? Probably not, but it's certainly veering in that direction.

 

[Ziltoid]

#ALLTHISYETWELIVEINTHESAFESTTIMEINHUMANHISTORY

#SOIRONIC

Hashtags are your fault.

 

[Relic]

Hashtags are your fault.

I accept it.

 

[mellowinman]

Here's what happened in a nutshell. Feel free to quote me on this as it is my own.

When this country was founded, it was founded on the notion that any of us would gladly lay down our lives to protect our liberties. We would do it to protect the liberties of our neighbors. Literally we as citizens were willing to sacrifice our very lives for this cause. And it was well worth it. Look what we built in only a couple of centuries.

These days we line up to give our liberties away in the interest of "If we can save just one life it's worth it." No, it is not. You can not regulate away evil. You can not regulate away violence. You certainly can not regulate away crazy. It is NOT worth it to crank out little girly men in the interest of perhaps stopping one of them from going nuts ten years from now and shooting up the sporting goods section of Target.


Here is where I come across as not so nice. But I wish no one any ill will. There is no ONE LIFE..... no child, no grandma, no anyone whose life is worth the rest of the nation giving up our way of life to protect. Nobody. Not even my own daughters. Not my mother. Not my neighbor. Not even a classroom full of fifth graders. For 300 million people to have to walk on eggshells and teach our children not to point imaginary finger guns or launch imaginary grenades is ridiculous. For a kid to get kicked out of school forever for bringing a pocket knife to school is even more ridiculous.

Where I grew up in northern NC in the 80s, ALL the boys had pocket knives. Nobody ever got cut. MOST boys had shotguns in their trucks in the fall because they were going hunting before or after school. Nobody EVER got shot. We got in fist fights. If the PE teacher walked up the fight, he gave both boys boxing gloves and told them that nobody leaves until somebody falls. There was rarely ever a fight. But if there was, the two boys were forced to shake hands and were sent to class. End of story. And we all turned out fine. We're all normal. Several class reunions later, none of us went nuts. By all accounts none of us hang dead cats from clotheslines. None of us hurt people.

If that is within them, or their environment at home leads them down that path, no amount of "sanitizing" their school environment will prevent it. Let them wrestle. Let them play dodge ball. Let them play cops and robbers. Turn off their stupid idiot boxes (video games) and send them outside to play BOY games..... football, army, cowboys and indians, whatever.

They are kids. They will learn right from wrong (just as I did) in the midst of being a real boy. If their parents are too sorry to teach them, their peers certainly will. Peer pressure was a GOOD thing back then. We literally had BB gun wars in the woods out back of our house. All the boys in the neighborhood played war, dodge ball, king of the hill, and just plain beat the crap out of each other for fun. We are all now dads, community leaders, officers in the church, teachers, law enforcement officers, and generally good people.


No, boys have NOT become too hostile. Schools have been taken over by a bunch of wussies who never got picked to be on the dodgeball team growing up. Now they think they can protect the "fragile" egos of the little children. Children are not fragile. Their grandfathers can die and they will play tag at lunch. Their house can burn down and they will be excited to see their new room a few days later. It is the grownups who are fragile projecting onto the little ones.

Sorry for the long rant.

Back in those good old days, some students were bullied to the point of being unable to go on with their lives.

It was great for the survivors, but that rant glosses over the victims. Some kids didn't need to have the crap beat out of them. Some of those kids needed that crap.

 

[Ziltoid]

I accept it.

Quit just accepting everything like such a defeatist and start trying to fix things darn it.

 

[Relic]

Quit just accepting everything like such a defeatist and start trying to fix things darn it.

#

 

[LiquidMidnight]

And please stop ranking on journalists as a class. Some of us are remarkably capable--when we're allowed. The playing field has changed since editorial has embraced Big Daddy Click Pimp.

I hope that it didn't seem like I was slamming on journalists. I just gnash my teeth when I see statistics and empirical research misrepresented by the press. I never know if it's because they're trying to be sensationalist or if they're just not sophisticated enough to understand the research that they're reporting. Either way, I think it's bad because it's a reductionist representation of research and usually doesn't make the general populace, who definitely aren't sophisticated enough, to understand the research.

 

[Lee Moses]

Huh, without any irony, as I predicted, the first part of this post was accurate, and as I figured, many people ignored the second part of my post.

#screwexternalvalidity
#extremeoutliersdefinethemean
#anecdotalexamplesaretherulenottheexception

It's not as if this article is the first evidence we've seen of this kind of restriction taking place. If you have children, I'm sure you've seen this to some degree at their school. The idea of having organized sports where nobody keeps score? The extremes of the examples may not be ubiquitous, but it's not difficult to see the incremental moves in that direction everywhere you look.

 

[Ziltoid]

Science is overrated, wussies hide behind data.

 

[LiquidMidnight]

The thing about "average school policy" has me ing. More and more schools and school districts are adopting these asinine "no tolerance" policies that make these anecdotal exceptions more common for more people. My girlfriend's daughter can't have a couple pills of ibuprofen on her to help with her menstrual cramps because of a no tolerance policy on drugs in her school, so she's got to go down to the clinic when she needs them. Or for a headache. Or a sore ankle from playing soccer. Everyone has heard about the Eagle scout that got either suspended or expelled because he had a pocket knife in the back of his car.

Are some of these stories extreme outliers? Of course, however it's the extreme things that make the news, not the seemingly banal stuff that we used to be able to do, that is now considered a breach of some "no tolerance" policy.

I'm not really sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me. Arguably more schools are adopting zero tolerance policies, but a policy only has value if it's actually carried out. How many of these zero tolerance policies are being carried out to the extreme level as those cited in the article or those talked about in the corner diner with friends? If we conducted a panel study of school districts over time, we may find a statistically significant result that schools have adopted more zero tolerance policies. However, if we were to then turn-around and do a cross-sectional study with districts and examine "Critical Incidents" of zero tolerance policies being carried to extreme ends, there may be nonsignificant findings.

There are probably thousands of school districts in the United States, and that's not including private and parochial schools - lots of opportunity to cherry-pick extreme examples that may not be representative of the average. For the record, I graduated high school in 2000, and for as long as I could remember, students couldn't self-administer any sort of medication, even aspirin. They had to go to the school nurse.

 

[Lonesomedave]

Back in those good old days, some students were bullied to the point of being unable to go on with their lives.

and i am sorry for that...no one should be bullied at all...BUT, in trying to fix that (among other things we are trying to social-engineer out of American life), we are screwing up the best, most productive system the world has ever known, and we are screwing up boys.

It was great for the survivors, but that rant glosses over the victims. Some kids didn't need to have the crap beat out of them. Some of those kids needed that crap.

again, there has got to be a middle ground....stop bullying, but allow boys to be boys....

and, BTW, this great new world that we are building doesn't seem to have solved the bullying problem, has it?...every week you hear/read stories about kids being bullied...sometimes to the point of suicide....why do think we have this national campaign against bullying?

and it's not just boys....you hear all these horror stories about girl bullying...both as the victims and the perpetrators

they really are 2 unrelated issues....address the bullying but don't screw up society, while doing so....

except, i think for many, bullying is just a pretext...they WANT to screw up society...granted, they wouldn't call it that, they would say they are making "social progress" and actually fixing society....well you say TOMAYTO and i say TOMAHTO

 

[Mysterion]

I hope that it didn't seem like I was slamming on journalists. I just gnash my teeth when I see statistics and empirical research misrepresented by the press. I never know if it's because they're trying to be sensationalist or if they're just not sophisticated enough to understand the research that they're reporting. Either way, I think it's bad because it's a reductionist representation of research and usually doesn't make the general populace, who definitely aren't sophisticated enough, to understand the research.

Fair enough. And I'm no great fan of the direction of (post)modern journalism, nor a lot of contemporary journalists. But some of us still try to produce copy that's clean, smart, thorough, and concise. Whether that makes it into print is another matter. There are a lot of layers of stupid and venal between the writer and the page.

 

[LiquidMidnight]

It's not as if this article is the first evidence we've seen of this kind of restriction taking place. If you have children, I'm sure you've seen this to some degree at their school. The idea of having organized sports where nobody keeps score? The extremes of the examples may not be ubiquitous, but it's not difficult to see the incremental moves in that direction everywhere you look.

I hear all of these examples of school sports where they don't keep score, but I've yet to actually see any of it...except of course, on random people's post on the Internets and in sensationalist blogs.