Double Bass Hatpeg question

[robobass]

Herr Condino's recent thread got me thinking...Why are hatpegs tapered at all? In fact, why are metal pegs tapered? I can think of no reason from a mechanical engineering standpoint. Wouldn't a straight peg work just as well? With cellos on up, you need a taper to hold the peg in position, but once you have a gear, the taper-induced hold becomes irrelevant. Is the taper on bass machines just a throwback to pre-machine days, or am I missing something?

 

[arnoldschnitzer]

Tapers are a disadvantage, as they cause more tilt in the string pull (because bass tuners are installed square to the angled pegbox sides).

 

[Jake deVilliers]

I agree that the taper is just from ingrained habit...you can re-fit a tapered friction peg with just a quick twist from a tapered reamer whereas with a straight hole you need to re-bush.

The Klusons on Kays have parallel shafts and don't lose anything by it. It seems as though metal-shafted tuners would be better off with parallel shafts, doesn't it?

 

[RCWilliams]

Sloanes aren't tapered, they work fine. When we designed the Bass tuners that we had at KC Strings while I was there, we used a double diameter with a step drill for installation so the pegs could be tapered the reason being for string clearance in the peg box. As I understand it, no string should contact another tuner on the way from the nut to its own peg. but the world is full of what I call "Violin Voodoo" and the truth of it always seems to be slightly obscured.

The holes we put in the gears (now widely copied) were to avoid having to dismantle the gears to install the tuner, the mounting holes on the base aligned with the the hole in the gear so you could line it up and screw it on.

 

[Jake deVilliers]

Good point, Rick! Though I just checked the six basses here and on all of them the 'D' string touches the 'G' capstan on the way through the peg box - the 'A' also touches on the hat peg equipped 1850s Saxon bass and on the parallel string posted Kays.

Maybe tapered is better?

 

[George700DL]

Herr Condino's recent thread got me thinking...Why are hatpegs tapered at all? In fact, why are metal pegs tapered? I can think of no reason from a mechanical engineering standpoint. Wouldn't a straight peg work just as well? With cellos on up, you need a taper to hold the peg in position, but once you have a gear, the taper-induced hold becomes irrelevant. Is the taper on bass machines just a throwback to pre-machine days, or am I missing something?

For what it's worth, I turned my hatpegs in the cylindrical fashion.

George

 

[robobass]

Good point, Rick! Though I just checked the six basses here and on all of them the 'D' string touches the 'G' capstan on the way through the peg box - the 'A' also touches on the hat peg equipped 1850s Saxon bass and on the parallel string posted Kays.

Maybe tapered is better?

I think an argument could be made that it's good for the D to touch the G peg. Otherwise it might ring sympathetically behind the nut. The thing to be avoided is touching the cheeks. Also, whether or not the D and A strings touch the E and G pegs seems to me more about the layout of the holes rather than whether the pegs are straight or tapered.

Edit: On further thought I do see how the taper allows some clearance over the G and E pegs, but peg hole placement seems like a much bigger factor.