Have You Ever Seen A Ghost?

[One Drop]

My point is this. You have never experienced the bone-chilling winds of Mount Everest but you take witnesses' accounts at face value. Why are ghosts different? Hundreds of wittnesses, some even notable people in history, have claimed to see ghosts. Why do they not get the same benefit of the doubt? Why do you completely discount something simply because you have not experienced it yourself? To me, that places oneself on a very high pedestal. It implies that you are perhaps the only one qualified to make such a call for the rest of us. Until you see it, it hasn't happened. Did the crashing of ocean waves not occur until you witnessed it?

Yes, my language is intentionally "trollish". But that is simply to emphasize a point. I don't mean everything I wrote in the most literal sense.

(These days, with everyone being so sensitive, one can no longer assume such understandings.)

Even if we wanted to entertain the possibility of ghosts existing, we come up against the multiple offers and invitations made over at least 120 years for anyone to provide evidence if their existence. Every proof offered has been thoroughly debunked and no one has ever supplied a shred of evidence to support their existence.

The belief in them is easily explained by our desire that the spirits of the dead continue to exist in another form.

Fairies, trolls, sprites, gods, men of the forest, demons, ad infinitum reappear in almost every culture in various forms at various times, but their tendency to take the expected forms of the day, and the powers and knowledge assigned to them speaks much more of them fulfilling a psychological need or answering questions about who we are and where we came from than actually representing an existing reality.

 

[One Drop]

so glad so many of you are here to tell others what they've experienced. don't know what anyone would do with out you.

It is the interpretation of what they experience that is being discussed. No one is denying that people experience certain things, nor are they being accused of lying.

I don't understand the anger at a rational discussion about the existence of ghosts in 2015. It's not like we're questioning the existence of god or something.

 

[two fingers]

Even if we wanted to entertain the possibility of ghosts existing, we come up against the multiple offers and invitations made over at least 120 years for anyone to provide evidence if their existence. Every proof offered has been thoroughly debunked and no one has ever supplied a shred of evidence to support their existence.

The belief in them is easily explained by our desire that the spirits of the dead continue to exist in another form.

Fairies, trolls, sprites, gods, men of the forest, demons, ad infinitum reappear in almost every culture in various forms at various times, but their tendency to take the expected forms of the day, and the powers and knowledge assigned to them speaks much more of them fulfilling a psychological need or answering questions about who we are and where we came from than actually representing an existing reality.

So, everyone who is truly 100% convinced he/she has seen one is a psycho or a simpleton grabbing at spiritual straws (or bumped his/her head). And no true intellectual has ever claimed to see one, I suppose. Plus, I suppose a true intellectual can explain exactly why we are here and exactly how we got here.

That seems a bit far fetched to me.

There seem to be many holes in both sides of the argument. And yet, both sides seem so sure of themselves.

 

[Darth Handsome]

You make hit and run blanket statements that imply you are the only person on Earth who could possibly be right on many issues...... quite often.

Seems we have each other completely figured out, eh?

No. Youre way off abiut me and I dont know anything about you other than that youre a relatively serious fella.

 

[ZenG]

Are we waiting for scientific documentation on proof-of-ghost?
I'm not.

 

[Hoff Kinkmeister]

You act as though anyone being sure of something they have experienced is nonsense. And yet you seem to be very sure something you have never experienced doesn't exist simply because you haven't experienced it. Which is more nonsensical?

The only proof you have that wind exists is that trees sway and kites fly. But you have never seen it.

Actually we can directly and repeatably measure many things about the wind. False equivalence is false.

 

[Hoff Kinkmeister]

So, everyone who is truly 100% convinced he/she has seen one is a psycho or a simpleton grabbing at spiritual straws (or bumped his/her head).

Yes, based on the totality of evidence.

 

[Atshen]

I've seen Santa Claus at the mall. So I know he exists.

 

[ZenG]

Yes, based on the totality of evidence.

What evidence.....?

They're ghosts...they don't leave evidence.

 

[Hoff Kinkmeister]

What evidence.....?

They're ghosts...they don't leave evidence.

Exactly, they don't exist. Things that don't impact the universe in any measurable way don't exist.

 

[saltydude]

I love this thread. There is some very intelligent insightful posts & people here & then there are others.

I'll find out for sure when I take my last breath, leave this physical vehicle that is my flesh and blood & enter the light.

 

[One Drop]

So, everyone who is truly 100% convinced he/she has seen one is a psycho or a simpleton grabbing at spiritual straws (or bumped his/her head). And no true intellectual has ever claimed to see one, I suppose. Plus, I suppose a true intellectual can explain exactly why we are here and exactly how we got here.

That seems a bit far fetched to me.

There seem to be many holes in both sides of the argument. And yet, both sides seem so sure of themselves.

If you think this is what I and others here are claiming then I understand why you are getting so heated.

It is perfectly normal and in fact seems to be hardwired in humans to want to know how and why they exist and what happens to us after we die, or what we were before we were born.

You don't have to be a psycho or a simpleton to experience things not easily explained by science, in fact we all regularly experience all kinds of optical and auditory illusions that are proof that what we see is not always what we think we see.

And if you start informing yourself about what we know already about the way our senses work and how we process stimuli you will understand that we actually only process consciously a tiny percentage of what we experience sensorially, and the brain makes up an artificial version of 'reality' that makes enough coherent sense of that stimuli to allow us to function.

Many intellectuals did in fact believe or experience ghosts, but being intellectuals they sought to find rational explanations, or became so interested they devoted portions of their lives and a great deal of money trying to find proof, or people that could make contact with them. It's a fascinating subject, and their spectacular and consistent failure to find any verifiable evidence weighs heavily against their existence.

 

[One Drop]

What evidence.....?

They're ghosts...they don't leave evidence.

Well, apparent they do, to believe a few of you here.

 

[two fingers]

If you think this is what I and others here are claiming then I understand why you are getting so heated.

It is perfectly normal and in fact seems to be hardwired in humans to want to know how and why they exist and what happens to us after we die, or what we were before we were born.

You don't have to be a psycho or a simpleton to experience things not easily explained by science, in fact we all regularly experience all kinds of optical and auditory illusions that are proof that what we see is not always what we think we see.

And if you start informing yourself about what we know already about the way our senses work and how we process stimuli you will understand that we actually only process consciously a tiny percentage of what we experience sensorially, and the brain makes up an artificial version of 'reality' that makes enough coherent sense of that stimuli to allow us to function.

Many intellectuals did in fact believe or experience ghosts, but being intellectuals they sought to find rational explanations, or became so interested they devoted portions of their lives and a great deal of money trying to find proof, or people that could make contact with them. It's a fascinating subject, and their spectacular and consistent failure to find any verifiable evidence weighs heavily against their existence.

I rarely, if ever, get "heated". You are gathering way to much from shared opinions. I'm just having a conversation. I haven't even taken a position in this conversation. I just find it hilarious that both sides are so sure. But those who are non believers seem to have a sense of arrogance that the other side does not for the most part.

 

[ZenG]

Well, apparent they do, to believe a few of you here.

Yes but those people are mistaken.

If you get an EVP on a device......it must be something else.
If you come back to a room and things have been moved around although there was no-one there...it must be something else.
If you hear walking footsteps above you in a proven deserted building...it must be something else.
If 5 people hear a voice at the same time...it must be something else.
If you get any kind of photographic image....it must have been faked.

 

[dave64o]

Even if we wanted to entertain the possibility of ghosts existing, we come up against the multiple offers and invitations made over at least 120 years for anyone to provide evidence if their existence. Every proof offered has been thoroughly debunked and no one has ever supplied a shred of evidence to support their existence.

The belief in them is easily explained by our desire that the spirits of the dead continue to exist in another form.

Fairies, trolls, sprites, gods, men of the forest, demons, ad infinitum reappear in almost every culture in various forms at various times, but their tendency to take the expected forms of the day, and the powers and knowledge assigned to them speaks much more of them fulfilling a psychological need or answering questions about who we are and where we came from than actually representing an existing reality.

And it's not only that dead loved ones exist in another form, but it's that they're happy in that form and that that form is FAR better than the form we know here in the natural. The preponderance of reports from mediums seems to be "You're beloved grandmother is no longer in pain, she's with all of her family, she's very happy, and one day you'll join them and be unimaginably happy and peaceful, too".

But have you ever heard of a medium telling a client, "Oh dear, your dead brother is speaking to me and he is very, VERY angry. He says, 'Listen, you lying pr!ck, now that I'm dead I know you were sleeping with my wife for all those years. I've got a living hell to unleash on you for the rest of your life and, when I'm finished with you, you've got an even worse immortal and eternal hell waiting for you. No peace for you. Starting now you'll wish you were never born!!!'. So I told you what he said, now quick pay me and get the hell out of my parlor before any of my other clients see something supernaturally horrific happen to you or end up as collateral damage in the supernatural horror you unleashed!!!!!!!!".

Has a medium ever provided a reading like that? Everyone has skeletons in their closets, yet you never hear of someone going to a medium and having a very dark and/or embarrassing secret exposed by the dead coming back to speak through the medium. You never hear about a loved one admitting to some awful act that no one else ever knew about and admitting to now being in hell, experiencing a level of torture and pain that the living could never understand as punishment for an act they thought would be hidden forever when they died. Why don't you hear about readings like this, only the happy, unicorn-filled, glittery paradises?

 

[socialleper]

No. Nor do i believe in them. Its all in people's heads.

 

[DwaynieAD]

It is the interpretation of what they experience that is being discussed. No one is denying that people experience certain things, nor are they being accused of lying.

except they are exactly denying what people have experienced and are exactly accusing people of lying.

C-

swing and a miss.

 

[dave64o]

I love this thread. There is some very intelligent insightful posts & people here & then there are others.

I'll find out for sure when I take my last breath, leave this physical vehicle that is my flesh and blood & enter the light.

I'll agree with you on that first sentence. And I admit to being on both sides of that divide in this thread.

However, the second sentence I'll have to respectfully disagree with. Had you stopped at "I'll find out for sure when I take my last breath." I'd be on board. But the rest of that sentence presupposes that there is something after this life, which we can not ever know for sure.

 

[Hoff Kinkmeister]

I rarely, if ever, get "heated". You are gathering way to much from shared opinions. I'm just having a conversation. I haven't even taken a position in this conversation. I just find it hilarious that both sides are so sure. But those who are non believers seem to have a sense of arrogance that the other side does not for the most part.

You're likewise misreading informed confidence as arrogance.