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Headline turns into double-bill turns into sharing backline...

JazznFunk

JazznFunk

Supporting Member
Mar 26, 2000
4,860
7,320
45
Asheville, NC
bryanwhite-bassist.bandcamp.com
#1
I'm posting this to get other folks' reactions and input on their normal protocol in the situation I experienced last night. I walked into our gig which had for months been advertised/planned as a headline gig with no other band on the bill. The day of the gig we learned it was going to be a double-bill, and the band was made up of some other local cats I/we knew, but didn't know well. I knew the bassist in passing but we'd never really formally met, and I didn't know his style, etc. It was basically assumed from the start that we would share backline, even though this wasn't discussed at all. In fact, the way it was presented to me was that it was just assumed that we'd share. Now, I'm fine to share if I really know someone and how they interact with their equipment, but I have a few requirements when it comes to using mine... i.e., paying attention to the gain stage of the amp so it's not clipping, not going to extremes with the EQ, setting the gain so that small adjustments in volume go a long way, etc. I made the same requests last night and the bassist totally ignored it all... clipping my input the whole time (thankfully the compressor was engaged) and basically just ignoring the fact that it was MY STUFF he was using and not making any attempt to honor that. Also, not even a 'thanks for letting me use your rig, man' at the end of the night. He also had a very wildly dynamic style (heavy touch overall, heavy slap/pop on occasion, digging in super hard), whereas my style is much more fluid and even. I admit that I'm pretty anal when it comes to my equipment and I try to take care of everything really well, so it's partly my own hangups with taking care of my stuff that affect my feelings with all this.

Anyway... I hate to get to a point where I adopt a 'no sharing' policy completely, but I just get too nervous with someone else sharing my rig unless I know them like a brother. Know what I mean? I don't want to be a jerk, but at the end of the night if something breaks, I'm the one who still has to replace it. Y'know?
 
#2
First, you should have been informed about the other band and gear sharing beforehand. Second, if it is your rig, you get to set the use rules and if you don't want the settings touched, be adamant about it or you set them for him whether he likes it or not. The fact that he did not even thank you is totally uncalled for and unprofessional. There is nothing wrong with adopting a no share pilicy. After all, it is your gear and have to pay if it is broken.
 
#3
There is no such thing as an assumed backline share, and in my 30 years never has happened without either knowing the people or long conversations pre-show.

I've never seen this in my time. I will discuss this with the bands way before hand if I know them or know of them. But basically I expect to lug in and out with each band, and also that if I'm headlining I get the sound check.

The other thing you can do is remove the fuse in your head after running sound check and then only put it back in when its your turn to play.

No sharing is fine. Hell, the greatest bands don't share backlines at their shows.
 
#5
JazznFunk said:
I'm posting this to get other folks' reactions and input on their normal protocol in the situation I experienced last night. I walked into our gig which had for months been advertised/planned as a headline gig with no other band on the bill. The day of the gig we learned it was going to be a double-bill, and the band was made up of some other local cats I/we knew, but didn't know well. I knew the bassist in passing but we'd never really formally met, and I didn't know his style, etc. It was basically assumed from the start that we would share backline, even though this wasn't discussed at all. In fact, the way it was presented to me was that it was just assumed that we'd share. Now, I'm fine to share if I really know someone and how they interact with their equipment, but I have a few requirements when it comes to using mine... i.e., paying attention to the gain stage of the amp so it's not clipping, not going to extremes with the EQ, setting the gain so that small adjustments in volume go a long way, etc. I made the same requests last night and the bassist totally ignored it all... clipping my input the whole time (thankfully the compressor was engaged) and basically just ignoring the fact that it was MY STUFF he was using and not making any attempt to honor that. Also, not even a 'thanks for letting me use your rig, man' at the end of the night. He also had a very wildly dynamic style (heavy touch overall, heavy slap/pop on occasion, digging in super hard), whereas my style is much more fluid and even. I admit that I'm pretty anal when it comes to my equipment and I try to take care of everything really well, so it's partly my own hangups with taking care of my stuff that affect my feelings with all this.

Anyway... I hate to get to a point where I adopt a 'no sharing' policy completely, but I just get too nervous with someone else sharing my rig unless I know them like a brother. Know what I mean? I don't want to be a jerk, but at the end of the night if something breaks, I'm the one who still has to replace it. Y'know?
Click to expand...
it's your gear,you paid for it and you should feel no guilt for a no loan policy.....all you need to say now is "i did it once and my gear was disrespected so no,sorry"......
 
#7
yeah, i see no problem with making him bring his own gear. they're local? bring your own stuff that you bought and paid for and abuse that.

i have no problem letting somebody that i know and trust use my gear, but the trust part would make me sure they'd listen to any instructions i had on how to treat my stuff.
 
#8
so you are basically saying that a band "showed up" and expects to play and use your gear ?

I would whip out the flyer for the show (assuming you have one) and politely say

" we were not expecting you to play tonight, I hope you don't mind using your own gear"
 
#9
evrytime i have to share my rig i take the bassist (of bassists) to one side and say the following
"ok mate you can use my amp no probs feel free to EQ as you see fit too BUT its a 400w head and the cab is only 300w she usually runs at 7 on the dial with no complaints if i see you push it past 8 or if you start misstreating her i'm walkin onstage and flipping the switch off and you do the rest of your set acoustic clear?"
then i'll usually help them set my rig up for their own sound etc just to be sure

i might sound like a bit of d**k when i say this but to this date other bassists have always treated my rig with care due to the warning however i only started using this warning after i witness a friends amp get fried by a braindead "punk rocker" who compensated for a low output bass by turning everything up and maxing out the EQ :scowl:

unfortunatly you have to tar everyone with the same brush when your gear is at stake and lay down the law :mad:
 
#10
The venue changed the conditions of the gig and added them on as an opener. Most of the guys are in a couple of fairly prominent local bands and this was a sort of 'side project' for them. The bassist is busy and respected, but has a bit of an ego... sort of common with some of the guys in that circle. Maybe he just assumed (there's that word again) that since he's 'big stuff' around here, that someone would have no problem loaning their stuff to him on the gig. You see, this whole thing is never an issue for me because I am quite content to just run through the monitors if there is no rig in the mix. I can't understand why others won't accept responsibility and do the same, coming prepared for whatever situation may be at hand. That notwithstanding, I was put in a position of looking like a jerk by saying NO in front of other local guys. I admit... I caved. I guess it's just the whole concept of showing up and assuming the other band will share equipment. This seems to be an assumption on the part of the venue/sound techs as much as the co-bill artists themselves. The sound person also suggested sharing to make their job easier from the moment we walked in. I understand it makes things easier and more convenient all around, but it seems like the ASSUMPTION that it would be okay was already made, and saying no would have caused other issues. I guess I just have to accept the fact that down the road, someone will think I'm a d*ck because I say NO, and just roll with it.

I appreciate the votes of confidence for saying NO down the road.
 
#11
TRichardsbass said:
There is no such thing as an assumed backline share, and in my 30 years never has happened without either knowing the people or long conversations pre-show.
Click to expand...

Really? It's happened to me on at least 3 occasions. Each time the discussion didn't happen until less than 24 hours before the gig.




...I think word has gotten around Knoxville that I'm the only college bass player with a rig large enough to handle big venues :atoz:
 
#12
I can understand why you ended up letting the guy use the rig. Had I seen someone on stage using my rig and clipping it, I would have gone on stage and adjusted it so it was set properly. Then I would have gone to the sound guy and asked if he had a direct box and tell him to set it up because if the guy ****s with your amp, you're shutting it off and he's going direct. Then if he **** with the rig again, the sound guy unplugs him from the amp and into the direct box and it's their problem.
 
#13
DavidE said:
I can understand why you ended up letting the guy use the rig. Had I seen someone on stage using my rig and clipping it, I would have gone on stage and adjusted it so it was set properly. Then I would have gone to the sound guy and asked if he had a direct box and tell him to set it up because if the guy ****s with your amp, you're shutting it off and he's going direct. Then if he **** with the rig again, the sound guy unplugs him from the amp and into the direct box and it's their problem.
Click to expand...

i like this. give him/her a chance, make it so you're protecting your stuff but giving him an option to keep playing without endangering your gear.

well played. well played sir.
 
#16
Crazy stuff, I've never had a problem saying no to that. The first time I had someone ask to use my stuff, I said nope, and I don't loan out my wife either. The soundguy was a bit cheesed at that one and I'm sure our sound paid a bit, but give me a break - you're a band, you're a bassist, GET A RIG!

The last time I was asked, I said sure, but I don't loan, I rent. $50 for the evening with a $500 cash deposit, non-negotiable. He complained that he could rent something better for less money and I just said 'do it'. I'm not a dick for saying no, they're dicks for asking...
 
#17
I have very little sympathy for someone who shows up at a gig without gear expecting that someone in another band will simply provide it for them.

We played a gig last year sharing a stage with another band. The organizer did not want the delay and hassle of switching drum sets between bands (they were mic'd), so well in advance he asked both bands if they could work it out between themselves to share drum kits. Our drummer got the phone number of the other drummer and they decided between themselves that both bands would use our drummers kit, with the other drummer using his own snare.

That's how to share gear, you don't just show up expecting that someone will let you use their stuff.
 
#19
Beej said:
Crazy stuff, I've never had a problem saying no to that. The first time I had someone ask to use my stuff, I said nope, and I don't loan out my wife either. The soundguy was a bit cheesed at that one and I'm sure our sound paid a bit, but give me a break - you're a band, you're a bassist, GET A RIG!

The last time I was asked, I said sure, but I don't loan, I rent. $50 for the evening with a $500 cash deposit, non-negotiable. He complained that he could rent something better for less money and I just said 'do it'. I'm not a dick for saying no, they're dicks for asking...
Click to expand...

That's what I do, too. I'm not in the equipment rental business & I deliberately price myself out of that business because I don't want to be in it. Sometimes the price is a little higher, especially if it's a high-dollar gig. Some people are charged a "d-bag tax" as well (which is really intended to keep me from having to deal with them, not necessarily a revenue source).

On the other side of the coin, I really don't like using anybody else's gear. I don't want to be responsible for it & I know I'd feel bad if somebody's stuff got hurt, even if I wasn't technically responsible. It may just have been that amp's day to die, & had nothing to do with me being plugged in at the time. Even so, I'd feel responsible to let them use my gear until theirs got repaired at the very least. I think that having to deal with the potential fallout is worse than dealing with the borrow/loan arrangement in the first place.
 
#20
JohnMCA72 said:
On the other side of the coin, I really don't like using anybody else's gear. I don't want to be responsible for it & I know I'd feel bad if somebody's stuff got hurt, even if I wasn't technically responsible. It may just have been that amp's day to die, & had nothing to do with me being plugged in at the time. Even so, I'd feel responsible to let them use my gear until theirs got repaired at the very least. I think that having to deal with the potential fallout is worse than dealing with the borrow/loan arrangement in the first place.
Click to expand...

+1

In addition, I know my gear and I like my gear. While hauling a rig is always a PITA, I bought my rig and went through other gear to achieve what I wanted out of a bass system. Any experienced musician should be able to adjust to another rig, but having something familiar is almost always optimal, IME.
 

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