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Headline turns into double-bill turns into sharing backline...

#42
Not a good policy. Changing the settings might be necessary, depending on the bass/style etc. It could also save the speakers.

(It would be like having the salesperson "set it in the store")LOL
 
#44
There are a couple of local cats who I would consider sharing a rig with, but it would never be assumed that anyone around here would just walk into a gig with no amp and no arrangements for one. I once played drums for a band and let the bass player use my Ampeg rig and he treated it miserably. He gave me a hard time when I told him to use the pad on the input and then turned it off mid-set because he wanted to be louder. I told him he clipped my rig and he was banned for life. It's not that hard to plug into an amp and use it properly without risking damage.
 
#45
with my rig - hated the gig but needed the money. I put duck tape over all the controls, except for the input gain and left one input open. I wrote "DO NOT REMOVE" on the tape, for the dodos that couldn't figure out that no means no. And I told everybody who used my amp to not touch anything, except for the input volume control, which I set so that, if it were maxed, it would not overload the amp. Worked great.

Next time, as always, get it in writing. Always. If it were me, I would write a contract, allowing the other band to use the gear, but making somebody personally responsible for any damage whatsoever, and gear to be replaced / repaired at full retail value & shipping, within ten days of determination of the damage, attorney's fees, & court costs, late fees, rentals, etc.

Musicians- if you are asked to loan / share your gear, always ask them will they personally sign a loss / damage liability contract. From my experience, as soon as you say "contract" they will change their minds about using your gear.
 
#46
The ONE time I didn't bring a backup bass to a gig was the ONE time that I actually broke a string. The bassist for the opening band was nice enough to volunteer his Lakland! I was so piss scared that I would break something on it that I didn't move at all the entire rest of the set. I thanked him profusely for that and I would do the same thing if he and I ever play the same gig again.
 
#47
I have the opposite problem most of the time. More often than not I'm the borrower and I hate it. I usually bring my rig and when I don't it's because I've been told to leave it behind. I hate not knowing the amp I'm using and my rule is basically not to touch the settings on the other bassists rig. So I often have a crappy sound (too much low end, highs, etc). I'm always respectful to the other guy's gear (no beers sitting on the amp, no cranking the volume, etc) and thank him both before and after the gig.

Now you might say... "just use your own rig". I try to whenever I can but the problem is... the soundguy or I should specify, the lazy soundguy. He just couldn't be bothered to set up for a new amp. I mean how hard is it really? Most of the time I'm just DI'd and no mic. I could insist but then I risk pissing off the soundguy and I really don't want that.

So as a result I'm stuck using someone else's amp and I've seen that look of disgust from fellow bassists who reluctantly say "sure, you can use it" and it's clear they don't want to share their gear and I don't blame them. All the while my amp is sitting across the room or in a car just outside and I'm not using it all because the soundguy insists we share.

With all that said... the few times my amp was the one borrowed by others I was never afforded the same kind of respect I give to others. My settings are all over the place, the volume and/or gain cranked up to ungodly levels, drinks sitting on it, etc. I just can't win! :help:
 
#48
jmac said:
This sharing backline is nonsense to me. Guitarist aren't made to share amps, but it's just assumed that bassists are ok with it.
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Actually guitarists sharing an amp isn't that uncommon around these parts. Drums are the most common followed by bass, but guitarists share amps frequently as well. Just makes sense when every other guitarist is using a Fender Twin or Blues Deluxe anyway.

I share a backline upon occasion. As long as I am asked beforehand, I usually don't have a problem with allowing others to use my rig. Then again, it is rare for me to play with dumbasses who abuse amps. Most of the guys are more of the turn it up till I can hear and go variety. IME, the ones who really want to twist knobs are the ones who will insist on their amp to get "their tone".

If I was worried about sharing my amp then when sharing a backline was first mentioned I'd nip it in the bud by quickly saying something along the lines of "that's a great idea, we'll just use your amp" to the other bassist. That way they are in position of saying no and looking like a heel. If they said no at that point, you could always hit them with the question "well why not?"
 
#49
jmattbassplaya said:
Really? It's happened to me on at least 3 occasions. Each time the discussion didn't happen until less than 24 hours before the gig.




...I think word has gotten around Knoxville that I'm the only college bass player with a rig large enough to handle big venues :atoz:
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In this case young man, you need to grow some b*****s! If anyone shows up and doesn't bring their own rig, then they aren't experienced, skilled or professional enough to use any gear, let alone yours. They can go direct through the PA and take whatever pathetic monitor feed they can get.

You found a way to pay for your stuff, other guys should pay for theirs too. If that happened to you three times, then you better just say no. You said it was a "discussion" but it seems more like it was "hey, we are using your rig." In future cases I would tell everyone no. I would ask the venue/promoter, if its his idea, to guarantee you in writing that if the other guys damage your stuff he pays cash up front that night to repair or replace. If he doesn't have cash in hand before the night starts, then you pull your stuff until only you are playing.

If its the other bands idea, you charge him rent. You ask him to bring cash, say $300. If he makes it through the set without killing your stuff, you give him back $280. If he damages it, you keep the $300 so you can fix or replace it.

If you do this I'm sure you won't ever have any other problems or non-negotiated last minute backline requests.

And no, in 30 years I've never let my rig be used for backline without much conversation or some financial guarantee/rent. I learned quickly, since I also booked a few shows independently, that as a club/promoter for original music you would have to rent sound gear for some clubs and if you didn't have the ability to load in each band's gear you have to provide the backline yourself (its called a rental.) If they are basically forcing you to provide the backline then you are providing him/her a much cheaper/free alternative. That is a no. I'm sure they don't guarantee you guys a set amount, only a piece of the door, which often is zilch or near zilch.

My Hartke gear lately gets more use for guys throwing benefit shows then me playing it. I will allow for its use, often rent free, but get a credit card from the organizer in case there is other then normal bar/show wear. They understand the deal. I donate my gear, but I'm not donating it to be damaged. Since its only a security, they never have problems.

I had one of my old Ampeg 1X15 cabs killed at a benefit last fall, one of the "volunteer roadies" was a little soused at the end of the show and managed to spear the cab with a perfectly sharp microphone stand as he tried to imitate Steven Tyler whipping the mic stand around. Perfect bullseye. The organizers of the benefit were not around for me to talk to, so I had the CC charged immediately for $300. As you guys know that much barely buys you a new, equivalent cab and might barely pay for a speaker replacement without a new grill.

A few weeks later I got a call from them asking about the charge and I referred them to the call and email I made to them. They were a little miffed at first because they had distributed all the funds and wanted me to eat the cost of repair/replacement and now they had a personal charge and no funds left to pay for it. I didn't budge.

Neither should you young man. The cost of someone damaging your "large venue rig" is more then just the invoiced cost. You lose use of it, your time, your gas, your mileage, and its always your money upfront. And as we all know, if others don't have a rig like yours then most likely they either can't afford to fix/repair/replace it nor would they actually come up with the cash for you.
 
#51
MikeBass said:
The other player.....was like, yeah, whatever, it's just a bass relax.
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This is when you take your "just a bass" and bash him with it until his skull bleeds and he has a billion dollar hospital bill. When the police ask, you can just say, "Well, he told me, its just another bass, relax. So I helped him relax. Hell, it was just a bass..."
 
#52
BagelBruin said:
I'm glad I read this. We're opening for the Dirty Guv'nahs (a great band out of Knoxville, TN.) This being the first time we've opened for someone in a LONG time, I wondered what the protocol was. I email the band and the venue on what they were like. I think I am in the clear.
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Those guys are great! I've seen them around a few times. Are you playing in Knoxville? I wouldn't mind coming out and buying a beer for a fellow TBer.
 
#53
Red Rover said:
I have the opposite problem most of the time. More often than not I'm the borrower and I hate it. I usually bring my rig and when I don't it's because I've been told to leave it behind. I hate not knowing the amp I'm using and my rule is basically not to touch the settings on the other bassists rig. So I often have a crappy sound (too much low end, highs, etc). I'm always respectful to the other guy's gear (no beers sitting on the amp, no cranking the volume, etc) and thank him both before and after the gig.

Now you might say... "just use your own rig". I try to whenever I can but the problem is... the soundguy or I should specify, the lazy soundguy. He just couldn't be bothered to set up for a new amp. I mean how hard is it really? Most of the time I'm just DI'd and no mic. I could insist but then I risk pissing off the soundguy and I really don't want that.

So as a result I'm stuck using someone else's amp and I've seen that look of disgust from fellow bassists who reluctantly say "sure, you can use it" and it's clear they don't want to share their gear and I don't blame them. All the while my amp is sitting across the room or in a car just outside and I'm not using it all because the soundguy insists we share.

With all that said... the few times my amp was the one borrowed by others I was never afforded the same kind of respect I give to others. My settings are all over the place, the volume and/or gain cranked up to ungodly levels, drinks sitting on it, etc. I just can't win! :help:
Click to expand...

Most sound guys take you direct. Your amp on stage is just for your personal monitor and to help flavor the club sound. You already know that lazy sound guy won't to work with setting up and mic-ing an amp, so don't expect him to.

Simple. YOU set your amp so you hear YOUR sound on stage. Sound guy takes you direct, either out of the balanced XLR on your amp or from a DI box. You have zero control over that, so live with it.

I suggest you purchase a pre-amp/pedal like either a SANSAMP or a Hartke VXL Attack. Each of those allows you to either send a basic, pre-EQ/effect signal or a post-EQ effect signal. When I'm faced with this I run my amp on stage set to my ears, and I send the sound guy my post-EQ signal DI. I tell him I've made life easy for him, set his system flat, take my signal, boost the volume to his liking and then tweak it for the room (eliminate boomy mudd or cracklin' highs.) Also, if you wind up not being able to use a stage amp, you can still control your DI signal.
 
#54
I am glad this topic came up, because I am sure there are plenty of people here who need to learn the OP's lesson. Life is full of users and manipulators, and if you are not prepared to stand up to them, they will use you like a rented mule. Guilt, intimidation and flattery are usually their favorite tools. You all know that feeling you get in your gut when you really don't want to do something, but There is an easy four step process for dealing with this.

1. Laugh loudly, like you can't believe somebody would be such an IDIOT as to assume you would let your expensive gear be used by strangers for free. Your words seem to express sympathy as you tell them "I'm sorry, but I can't agree to that", but your tone and demeanor reveal how stupid you think the request is.
Why do you laugh? Imagine walking up to the mayor at a parade and saying "Hey, I left my cellphone at home. Give me your car keys so I can run home and get it." He will laugh in your face. It is an inappropriate request and you are a clown.
If you display hesitation and guilt in the face of an inappropriate request, a user will identify you as a chump and move in for the kill.

2. If they continue to ask, and they are not offering something like a tall cash deposit, then again, "I'm really sorry, but I can't." You are not smiling anymore. Walk away.

3. If they insist upon pestering you further, display obvious irritation and "Look, I said no, okay." At this point the discussion is over as far as you are concerned.

4. Any further advances on their part will not be acknowledged except as the rude conduct it is, and which needs to stop. Your replies will be limited to requests that they drop it.

So if you have to, practice visualizing situations where some moron asks you for something he has no right to ask for, and you replying "No, you idiot. You moron. Are you serious??? You clown. You buffoon." In real life, of course, you only actually say "No" and just think the rest to yourself.

Put it this way. 14 year old girls fend off worse pressure than this on a regular basis just to avoid winding up pregnant. So be as tough as a schoolgirl.
 
#55
If I'm playing locally, I use my rig. If I'm playing internationally, I have a rig rented for me. If the promoter choses to let other bands use the rig they've rented for me, I don't mind, its not my gear I'm risking, the promoter is responsible. If its my gear, if I don't know you and it hasn't been pre-arranged, you can use my DI. Thats as much as I'll do.
 
#56
I appreciate all the insight from the original seed of my post and am glad it may have helped others. I've learned a lot from my fellow bassists, namely that my policy SHOULD be not to share 99% of the time... that 1% being reserved for close friends/players I know well. I saw a few folks referencing loaning/borrowing basses themselves... that's something I have never done and will NEVER do. Amps have in the past been a 'gray area' for me, but no more.

Bear in mind once again that my experience with this specific situation is rare... In most cases I never have to deal with this, but with the venue planting another band on the bill in the same afternoon as the show, and me not even know if there was a bassist or who the bassist was beforehand, I was caught even more off guard. I learned my lesson though. All bands that I play with now know that I have a no-sharing policy.
 
#58
busmandan said:
I found out after we had turned the gig down that Tork's typical MO is to blame the borrowed gear for any suckage that he spews from the stage. It would have almost been worth taking the gig just so I could beat him down afterward.
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I didn't want to say anything in case my memory is faulty, but since it's been brought up: I recall hearing some time ago that this bunch had a reputation not only for borrowing others' gear, but trashing it & taking off without making good on the damage (as well as complaining about the gear they trashed).
 
#59
TRichardsbass said:
Most sound guys take you direct. Your amp on stage is just for your personal monitor and to help flavor the club sound. You already know that lazy sound guy won't to work with setting up and mic-ing an amp, so don't expect him to.
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No argument here. I don't expect him to mic or setup my amp but for some reason a lot of sound guys I've run into just ask that we all use the same amp.

TRichardsbass said:
Simple. YOU set your amp so you hear YOUR sound on stage. Sound guy takes you direct, either out of the balanced XLR on your amp or from a DI box. You have zero control over that, so live with it.
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This is exactly what I would want but for some reason I'm told that it's easier if we all use the same amp. As others have said, they don't expect that of guitarists so why expect it of me? Surely it's not that much trouble to have ME move MY amp on stage. I'm perfectly capable of plugging into a DI. The sound guy doesn't really have anything to do. Maybe I'll just start insisting on using my own gear and if he gets upset then so be it.

As for the Sansamp... that's something I've been thinking of getting for a while. I may just pull the trigger on one soon.
 
#60
JohnMCA72 said:
I didn't want to say anything in case my memory is faulty, but since it's been brought up: I recall hearing some time ago that this bunch had a reputation not only for borrowing others' gear, but trashing it & taking off without making good on the damage (as well as complaining about the gear they trashed).
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really....you wouldn't think a 70 year old guy would have that much energy....i hear even the who don't do much of that any more
 

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