Headrush FRFR-108: Viable bass amp?

[ga_edwards]

20W 130dB with 8ohm woofer? Never.

8inch is good for:
- home use
- play with electric drums or no drums at all
- studio

2000W will fry this tiny speaker in few seconds provided cone won't fly away when you pluck E string

To be fair, the 2000w is peak. The cab is actually 1000w RMS, split 650w to the woofer and 350w to the tweeter.

The woofer on mine got damaged and I had to replace it. Not by bass guitar though, but by my drummer Roland drum trigger with a particularly deep kick drum effect.

With an appropriately set hpf it handles bass at volume quite well (I set it to 62hz to match the -3db roll off point, according to the specs). Just don't expect to gig with it and fill a room.

 

[baxter_x]

Anyone played through the 8" speaker Headrush? Thoughts?

I use it at home with my Axe FX and guitar. Sounds great.
With bass, even at home the cab is being pushed to its limits.

Great for guitar, almost usable for bass.

 

[agedhorse]

To be fair, the 2000w is peak. The cab is actually 1000w RMS, split 650w to the woofer and 350w to the tweeter.

The woofer on mine got damaged and I had to replace it. Not by bass guitar though, but by my drummer Roland drum trigger with a particularly deep kick drum effect.

With an appropriately set hpf it handles bass at volume quite well (I set it to 62hz to match the -3db roll off point, according to the specs). Just don't expect to gig with it and fill a room.

Now let’s explore these power numbers a little more…

The woofer mechanically (and thermally for that matter) isn’t going to last long powered at 650 watts without a lot of processing (specifically mechanical protective limiting, a combination of dynamics and filters, plus impedance control). There is no way to get around this, which is why they don’t blow up “easily”.

2. The tweeter is limited to about 35 watts RMS thermally and there is also some mechanical limitations to the adhesion of the voice coil bobbin to the diaphragm. Because of this, similar limiting approaches are used, though the crest factor can be higher short term but the thermal algorithms are more critical (power gets integrated over time to get a thermal energy value to compress against)

Ultimately, it may be a useful tool for some bass players, but a healthy dose of “reasonable expectations” is necessary. It’s really better suited for the guitar players it’s marketed to.

 

[baxter_x]

The cab is actually 1000w RMS

Not even a single second neither. Simply impossible

 

[sokolasty]

@ga_edwards
I come from world in which woofer power was used as a cabinet power, but that's a side note

I strongly doubt a tweeter withstands 350W or 8" woofer 650W neither mechanically or electrically. However I saw some car audio speakers with insanely long magnets for high cone excursion. So maybe

We need definitely a standard for measuring power of our amps and speakers
Car industry uses HP, torque, acceleration 0-60 and there's no way to inflate these figures beyond reason

 

[ga_edwards]

I should have worded my comment better.

Alto states the TS308 (which the original headrush is based on) is 2000 W peak (1300 LF + 700 HF) 1000 W continuous RMS (650 LF + 350 HF)

I guess they are massively massaging the figures with a lot dsp.

 

[baxter_x]

I should have worded my comment better.

Alto states the TS308 (which the original headrush is based on) is 2000 W peak (1300 LF + 700 HF) 1000 W continuous RMS (650 LF + 350 HF)

I guess they are massively massaging the figures with a lot dsp.

Still not even a second

 

[agedhorse]

Funny, they all came out of the woodwork for this one.

I've ran HPFs on most of my older amps. Besides making them more efficient, they helped save me from having to replace speakers. Thanks Andy. I guess I should have just PMed you rather than posting here.

@ga_edwards
I come from world in which woofer power was used as a cabinet power, but that's a side note

I strongly doubt a tweeter withstands 350W or 8" woofer 650W neither mechanically or electrically. However I saw some car audio speakers with insanely long magnets for high cone excursion. So maybe

We need definitely a standard for measuring power of our amps and speakers
Car industry uses HP, torque, acceleration 0-60 and there's no way to inflate these figures beyond reason

The sensitivity of most car audio speakers is very low, WAY too low (and heavy) to be of ANY value as an MI speaker.

Define “within reason” and we have the beginnings of a practical discussion…

 

[fretlessman71]

To be fair, the 2000w is peak. The cab is actually 1000w RMS, split 650w to the woofer and 350w to the tweeter.

To be just as fair, the Hartke KB series is the same way. 500w peak, 250 RMS. It bears repeating; what a great sounding and LOUD combo amp.

 

[fretlessman71]

Literally?

Nah, the fan works too well for that. LOUD little fan, too, and that's my only complaint really.

 

[sokolasty]

@agedhorse

If there'd been industry standard then no inflating was possible

I believe "beyond reason" is not one can define in SI units or percentage

 

[agedhorse]

@agedhorse

If there'd been industry standard then no inflating was possible

I believe "beyond reason" is not one can define in SI units or percentage

It would still happen, but just better disguised or presented.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

It would still happen, but just better disguised or presented.

I don't mind someone misrepresenting facts to me as long as they make some effort to do it in a way that's reasonably slick.

 

[klattman]

I borrowed the headrush 8”. At half volume it sounded terrible. It doesn’t produce the low frequencies and above half it sounded like I was going to break it so I gave up. 2000w quotes is peak and it behaved like a 200W amp that had speakers too small.

I also have the TC 208 cab and that does have the power to hold up to bass and get reasonably loud.

The difference between cabinets designed for bass and PA/guitar I guess.

There are powered PA speakers that look like they would be significantly better, but then they are priced accordingly so I have always just stuck with a bass speaker.

 

[happygilmour]

Yes, except OP already said he would keep his KB12, but it's good to keep this recommendation for future readers.
I own a Barefaced 1x10 and 1x12 and a GR Bass 2x10. They are all super lightweight, sound great and loud… and more expensive than a Hartke cab or equivalent PA cab.

A few more details to take into consideration:

• Barefaced are the only one you can placed on a stand (not the GR Bass)
• Barefaced 12" cabs are transparent sounding (uncolored), but the 10" cabs are colored
• GR Bass cabs are also very transparent
• Barefaced has no active bass cab currently, so you have to add a head (amp or power amp)
• GR Bass cabs are offered in passive version or active version

Why can't you place a GR cab on a stand?

 

[gtirard]

Why can't you place a GR cab on a stand?

Sorry for the misunderstanding, of course you can place the GR cab on a stand.

But with the Barefaced, you can ask for the "top hat" option,



Which then lets you really fix the cab to a PA stand like this:



I don't think you can do that with a GR Bass cab

 

[happygilmour]

Oh...yeah. Definitely not with a GR!

 

[fretlessman71]

A friend is letting me borrow his Headrush with the 8" speaker. I A/Bed it with my Hartke (I rigged up my Radial Big Shot I/O in reverse; hit a switch to go back and forth between the two, easy peasy). When they say "flat response", they should say "flat tone" as well. I am of course running a straight passive bass into it, but you'd think there would be a boatload more top end. I wonder if his tweeter blew?...

 

[MaHei]

When they say "flat response", they should say "flat tone" as well. I am of course running a straight passive bass into it, but you'd think there would be a boatload more top end. I wonder if his tweeter blew?...

Perhaps. But then your ears might be 'miscalibrated' by the Hartke KB12. Play some recorded music through both and draw your own conclusions.

 

[squiresuzuki]

Last I checked, the Headrush speakers are just rebranded Alto speakers -- I think the Headrush FRFR-112 was an Alto TS212.
I have an Alto TS212 hanging around and just measured the frequency response with a UMIK-1 and Room EQ Wizard.
It's extremely boomy/bass-heavy, not an "FRFR" at all (like, 10-15dB boost from 50Hz to 300Hz).
Not good for bass, even worse for guitar and keyboard. Perhaps good for an EDM DJ.

Someone else did the same here with an actual Headrush unit and found similar results:

Flattening the headrush curve

The headrush 108 is a popular and cheap way to monitor fractal rigs. But it is far from "flat". Flat is relative to a lot of things. This thread aims to tame the worst deviations and make the critter behave a little better. I picked up a miniDsp UMIC-1 and REW software on the Mac using the FM3...

forum.fractalaudio.com

And many have reported it elsewhere as sounding "boomy".

So yeah, I would stay away from Headrush speakers.