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Hearing Loss and Ear Plugs

dB doesn't translate directly into wattage, especially since a 65 watt tube amp can sometimes be louder than a 200W solid state amp, and a 100W guitar amp might need a 400W bass amp to keep up.

In general, every 10 dB doubles the amount of volume. So a 20dB cut equals roughly 1/4 of the original volume.

Here's the chart from the American Tinnitus Association:

20 dB Ticking watch
30 dB Quiet whisper
40 dB Refrigerator hum
50 dB Rainfall
60 dB Sewing machine
70 sB Washing machine
80 dB Alarm clock at two feet
85 dB Average traffic
95 dB MRI
100 dB Blow dryer, subway train
105 dB Power mower, chainsaw
110 dB Screaming child
120 dB Rock Concert, thunderclap
130 dB Jackhammer, jet engine plane (100 ft. away)
140 dB Shotgun blast, airbag deployment, firecracker

They say anything over 85dB can do damage with enough exposure. Here's how much exposure you can get away with (more or less):

Hours Per Day @ Sound Level
8 @ 90 dB
6 @ 92 dB
3 @ 90 dB
2 @ 100 dB
1.5 @ 102 dB
1 @ 105 dB
.5 @ 110 dB
.25 or less @ 115 dB

Notice at they rate a rock concert at 120dB (assuming that they're talking about FOH)? Meaning that you really don't want to spend TEN MINUTES in a rock show without ear protection.

I bought a dB meter from Radio Shack just to check and see exactly how loud we were. To my surprise, the interior of my vehicle on the highway approaches 90 dB! Then I have a tendency to turn up the radio to be heard over that, which further pushes the volume level up to damaging levels.

When my band was practicing later that day at "moderate" volume, we averaged about 105 dB. This was in a very large and open room. I popped the earplugs in and felt much better.

We did a gig later that week and, armed with my new dB meter, we did as much as we could to reduce the sound level onstage - running as much as possible through the PA, thinning out the monitor mixes, etc... We were able to maintain an onstage average of about 110 dB, even with the drummer banging away. Thus, with my 25 dB earplugs, stage volume becomes 85 dB, which I can listen to safely, assuming that I'm not listening to it for 12+ hours daily.

The hardest thing I've found is to detach my energy level from the perceived volume. It's quite natural to feel more "power" with louder music. Thus, when the earplugs go in, energy almost inevitably goes down because you don't *think* that you're rocking hard. Trust me, you are. With some practice, you can detach yourself from your volume knob and still rock at any volume.

One more thing. Your audience will likely not have earplugs. It's just not something that the average concertgoer thinks about. I'm amazed at the number of touring bands and professional venues who have the volume simply TOO LOUD. You know what I mean. Just too loud for the room. When you can't get away from the pounding headache anywhere in the room, the sound is too loud.

You like your audience? You wish for them to become fans? You really need to protect their ears as much as you'd protect your own. For the most part, they can unconsciously detect where they can be in relation to the stage without *quickly* hurting themselves, but make sure that there's somewhere in the venue where sound levels aren't above 100 dB. If not, you're assaulting your fan base, and they will eventually stop coming out to see you.

Or....... start handing out earplugs at the door...
 
http://www.hearnet.com/at_risk/risk_trivia.shtml

This is another great site with similar information.

No, ringing does not necessarily mean permanant damage, and a lack of ringing does not necessarily mean that you're not doing damage. Everyone reacts differently. What's ok for me may cause permanant damage for you. You can suffer hearing loss in specific frequencies and never know it until it spreads further. For a friend of mine, before his ears started ringing ALL THE TIME, everything seemed louder, especially higher pitched sounds like cymbals (he's a drummer). When the loudness went back to "normal" and the ringing set in, he finally sprung for the $100 musician's plugs. He says the ringing has decreased over the years, but he and his band have definitely changed how they operate and PLAY QUIETER.

The best thing you can do is protect yourself. When my band used to practice in my rehearsal room at home, a very small room with concrete floor, we would always wear ear protectors like those used in a shooting range. Now, I've grown very adept at "feeling" my ears and the pressure that they're under. I feel no embarassment now sticking my fingers in my ears if necessary at a concert, and I certainly pop in the earplugs whenever I need to.

Do it. You only get two ears, and you sort of want them to work as long as they can.

EDIT: Check out the bottom of the above article. Incidence of hearing loss in rock musicians: 13-30%. Which means as much as 1 in 3. How many are in your band?
 
Do decibels add up? for example if a bass amp is playing at 70 Db and a guitarist is playing at 90 Db (damn guitarists...) What is the total volume?

that site says that a trombone makes 85-114 Db of noise does that mean that a jazz horn section (unamplified) is at an unhealthy volume?

One more question: that site from the link says that higher frequencies are more damaging. I've always felt that the lower range of my basses was louder than the upper range. Does this mean that a thundering B string is just as bad for you as a not so thundering C string at the same volume setting?
 
BassManolukas said:
Do decibels add up? for example if a bass amp is playing at 70 Db and a guitarist is playing at 90 Db (damn guitarists...) What is the total volume?

that site says that a trombone makes 85-114 Db of noise does that mean that a jazz horn section (unamplified) is at an unhealthy volume?

One more question: that site from the link says that higher frequencies are more damaging. I've always felt that the lower range of my basses was louder than the upper range. Does this mean that a thundering B string is just as bad for you as a not so thundering C string at the same volume setting?
Although 2 sources will be louder, I don't know exactly how the math works out. I'd imagine that it's probably why 10 dB equals double the volume. Thus, two guitar amps which blare out 90 dB each probably have a sum of 100 dB, if I had to guess.

I'm also assuming that they're measuring the volume levels of the horns right next to the bell, where they are loudest. Usually us bassists will be ok (although the trumpets in my jazz band easily get up north of 95 dB, even from 15-20 ft away).

I know that our ears are far more suceptable to damage at high frequencies. I also know that the threshold for *feeling* sound is higher than the threshold for damage. What I don't know is how that translates out over the whole sonic spectrum. I do know that you still have to beware of overtones, as even a "low" instrument can generate very loud high overtones (if you ever want evidence of this, put your head under your drummer's ride cymbal).

I dunno. I defer to someone more knowledgable in the specifics here.
 
Interesting topic.

I really hate wearing those foam plugs... i cant seem to hear the little details... Are the customs any better? I dont want to spend that much money and then realise I cant use them...

Besides, my band doesnt play that loud, I never get ringing ears after our 2 hour jams... so it cant really be doing that much damage to me... thing is, when we start playing live venues we'll be playing higher volumes, and if im going to need it, I might as well get used to them now...
 
Aussiephoenix said:
I really hate wearing those foam plugs... i cant seem to hear the little details... Are the customs any better? I dont want to spend that much money and then realise I cant use them...

I can't really praise the custom earplugs enough. Compared to the foam ones, which muffle the higher frequencies, the customs are SO MUCH clearer, it's like night and day. The details are still there, just not as loud (and therefore damaging) to your eardrums. Yes, they're expensive, but think of them as a long-term investment. As an older player who naively attended loud rock concerts throughout the '60s and '70s and played with aggressive guitarists without ever protecting my ears, I only wish I'd had this information when I was younger.

And, as others have said, just because you're ears aren't ringing doesn't mean your hearing isn't being damaged. Trust me on this.
 
BassManolukas said:
I was looking into Decibel meters. Is this a good one?
They make better, I suppose, but my Radio Shack one looks pretty well identical to this.

Wear earplugs, friends. I like the condom analogy. You could go without the protection for a long time, but all it takes is ONE TIME when you DID need it that you'll wish for the rest of your life that the protection was in place.
 
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Those Hearos rock n roll plugs I've got don't make the sound half as muddy whilst playing - and they don't make my bass so quiet I can bearly hear it whilst playing...not tried either the foams or the hearos at practice yet, next time I'm gonna try them and see if they work - I may even give my band mates some foam plugs so they can try them out for themselves...the singer/guitarist once tried plugs but didn't like them so he's not used them since...I'm wondering if he's suffered some hearing loss coz he always listens to music much louder than I do, and when he recorded the drums on our last demo you could faintly HEAR THE CLICK-TRACK coming from the headphones (closed-cup-studio-style) on every mic we used... :rolleyes:
 
Bass players please use your plugs but dont be fooled the only way to maintain your hearing is to turn it down at rehersal. Got my masters in audiology at ithaca college. problem is that theres two ways of hearing through bone conduction and air conduction. Plugs take away the mechanical aspect of hearing, you dont need eardrums to hear they make the sound louder so yes stuff the hell out of your ears, but you can still do damage with bone conduction and the last poster was right it wioll NEVER go away and can get to the point that people have killed themselves because of it. Its one thing to not hear its another to have a telephone ringing right next to your head 24 hours a day only difference is youll be able to ignore the telephone after a while you cant ignore tinitus.
Heres a really wird way to help the tinnitus though "more for people that have mild tinnitus like myself" Imagine a stereo actually picture it in your mind and then imagine it making the same sound as the ringing in your ears. turn up the stereo in your mind so its louder than the tinnitus, now turn it down slowly. The first time I read this technique I though "what kind of hippie ying yang crap is this" but it can work to a degree, Id live to see if this works for anyone
 
Biagio139 said:
Bass players please use your plugs but dont be fooled the only way to maintain your hearing is to turn it down at rehersal. Got my masters in audiology at ithaca college. problem is that theres two ways of hearing through bone conduction and air conduction. Plugs take away the mechanical aspect of hearing, you dont need eardrums to hear they make the sound louder so yes stuff the hell out of your ears, but you can still do damage with bone conduction and the last poster was right it wioll NEVER go away and can get to the point that people have killed themselves because of it. Its one thing to not hear its another to have a telephone ringing right next to your head 24 hours a day only difference is youll be able to ignore the telephone after a while you cant ignore tinitus.
Heres a really wird way to help the tinnitus though "more for people that have mild tinnitus like myself" Imagine a stereo actually picture it in your mind and then imagine it making the same sound as the ringing in your ears. turn up the stereo in your mind so its louder than the tinnitus, now turn it down slowly. The first time I read this technique I though "what kind of hippie ying yang crap is this" but it can work to a degree, Id live to see if this works for anyone
Bone conduction? now I'm scared. So even if you you have crazy earplugs in so that you can't hear anything, if their is 110 dB noise around you are still damaging you hearing?
 
BassManolukas said:
Bone conduction? now I'm scared. So even if you you have crazy earplugs in so that you can't hear anything, if their is 110 dB noise around you are still damaging you hearing?
I don't remember the exact figure, but bone conduction ends up being either 30 or 40 dB lower than the outside noise. It's a huge problem for fighter pilots, dealing with 150 dB in the cockpit.

Thus, if you've got 110 dB happening onstage, you're still ok... bone conduction figures only for about 70-80dB. If you're venturing much higher than that ON STAGE, well, then you've got wayyy too much stage volume happening. Plus, I don't know anyone who's got a pair of 40dB earplugs. That would reduce a subway train to the volume of a sewing machine... or 1/16th of the original volume.

So yeah, worry about your ears the normal way first, and bone conduction will take care of itself.
 
Dkerwood said:
I don't remember the exact figure, but bone conduction ends up being either 30 or 40 dB lower than the outside noise. It's a huge problem for fighter pilots, dealing with 150 dB in the cockpit.

Thus, if you've got 110 dB happening onstage, you're still ok... bone conduction figures only for about 70-80dB. If you're venturing much higher than that ON STAGE, well, then you've got wayyy too much stage volume happening. Plus, I don't know anyone who's got a pair of 40dB earplugs. That would reduce a subway train to the volume of a sewing machine... or 1/16th of the original volume.

So yeah, worry about your ears the normal way first, and bone conduction will take care of itself.
ahh, ok. Phew.
 
I just a got a pair of hi-fi earplugs. My dad is a hunter and actually just had a pair (for shooting)

They fit really well and don't muffle the sound at all. Just in time for my NYE gig!

A big plus: They have a special filter that relatively filters the sound at different noise levels. This lets me hear low volumes clearly, but filters higher volumes more heavily. I can talk normally with my bandmates in between songs, yet our music is at a comfortable volume.

I know a lot of people will be interested these, but I don't know what they are or where they are from. My dad can't remember where he bought them, either. A little research will probably do the trick.

~Alex
 
I have been using those foamy earplugs for a couple of years now of course I only started wearing them after I got tinnitus:rollno:

However I started wearing them out of necessity and I got used to hearing the mudiness and the reduced highs and not everything perfectly clear. My ears certainly thanked me for it.

I feel that people will put in cheap earplugs then not hear everything as clearly as they did before then take them out and say they're crap and end up with some sort of damaged hearing. This will probably prevent them forking out the money for decent moulded earplugs and put them off ever using them again.

The point I'm trying to make is that wearing earplugs is going to take time to get used to if you haven't been using them already. Don't just put them in and then pull them out. Getting used to them will take time and constant regular use. The cheap foamies did me perfectly fine for years before I spring for the moulded ones, it really does just take time to get used to them. In the end it really is worth it.
 
BassManolukas said:
Ahh, I found the website of the people that make my earplug. My dad found the case, and it had the company's name on it. Here if the link, the ones I have are midway down the page.

Invalid Link Removed
Wait, are yours the "Super Sound Baffler" ones?

If so, be careful, they're only rated for 9 dB of protection, which means that if your onstage volume hits even 100 dB, you risk doing damage.
 

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