Double Bass Help! Choosing the right preamp (Dyn B, AI Coda R)

[basdanne]

Hi!

Can You help me to choose the perfect preamp? I am using the Schertler Dyn B with acoustic image Coda R. This setup sounds great with less volume. But when I want to play loud, the sound just doesn`t feel as warm as I want it to.

Do You have any Ideas?

Best Regards/
Daniel
Sweden

 

[MrSidecar]

I have good experiences with the schertler pre-aII and a Contra Series II combo. I´ve posted numerous posts here about my futzing and finding good ways of using the combination of pickup, bass, amp, and preamp.

The acoustic image products I know all have a tendency to be a little harsh on the midrange, in my opinion, so maybe that´s what´s bothering you. Hook the pre-aII to the input, turn the preamp notch filter all up (thanks again, Monte), and use the AI eq to finetune the whole. And don´t be afraid of rather extreme cuts (like, mids all out). For me, this works.

Monte has stated that results get better even with some parametric eq preamp, presonus or something, but I can´t say anything about it. He will, maybe.

Best

Sidecar

 

[basdanne]

Thank You!

Do You have any advice how to find the sweet spot for The Dyn B?

Daniel

 

[MrSidecar]

...of finding the sweet spot. No, two and a half.

I assume you mean the position of the pu on the bass top.

1. have a friend or relative (makes a great game for 7year-olds!) move the transducer around slowly while touching the bass top, without any putty. Plugged in of course. Listen carefully to what happens, note where it sounds best, stay with that.

2. do the whole thing yourself, with or without putty. with putty, it can take pretty long. Shorten the way to the right spot (maybe) by doing some pre-research (like, where to not put it at all, there´s usually spots on the instrument that speak way too much, you can maybe try that with your fingertips...)

Those two methods have one thing in common that speaks against them: They don´t really take into account the fact that the pu sounds different related to the amount of pressure that´s applied. That can be a bummer with the 7 year old (testing his fine-motorics) and can prolong the search considerably. Thus, there´s

method 2.5 (as "method" is a little too big a word for this):

pick any spot close to what schertler does in the docs (pictures on the web, etc). Sounds good? Leave it there and stop bothering. The thing is, there´s so many spots that sound good, yet all slightly different. Who picks what´s best when they are all darn close to the instrument´s true sound?

I decided to opt for 2.5 for myself, and keep concentrating on my own sound instead. Whenever I´ll come across a little unpleasant sound, I´ll first check if the pickup is too tight, and if it isn´t, I´ll maybe move it a little.

Best

Sidecar

PS. Hvor er det i Sverige, du er? Øresundsregionen, Skåne?

 

[bassist14]

+1 for method 2.5
i did that with two basses and it always sounded well.

ps:if you think about buying a schertler pre: i think about selling one of the two that i own. you can send me a pm if you like

 

[hensonbass]

I have one of these and it works great with any pickup I own.

If you have a piezo pickup you could blend with your DYN-B you might have more usable volume at louder levels. This preamp blends p/u's beautifully.

Invalid Link Removed

 

[basdanne]

Cool. Thank You for all help. I read the specifications for scherler´s preamp. I think I may will try that one (It seem to fit the Dyn B quite well). What do You think about that one? any + or-?

Sidecar: Jag bor faktiskt i Norge nu. I Oslo-området. Gratulerar till Vm-platsen... Heja Danmark!

 

[Monte]

Check this thread about not using a preamp with the Dyn B when going into an amp.

I picked up the Presonus Parametric and have NEVER been happier in nearly 10 years of using the Dyn B. Wish I had thought to do something similar back in the days of me owning an AI.....got rid of it because I never could get the Dyn B to work with it.

I have a PreA III and it is great going into a PA or powered speaker. Into an amp hard not to overdrive the signal.

 

[basdanne]

Intresting about the Presonus Eq. I think I have to try that one. Do You think it will work with the acoustic image? Will the presonus give me enough boost when I play loud?

Thank You/
Daniel

 

[MrSidecar]

Hi daniel,

Monte´s indeed right about the parametric. I had the chance today to try a parametric eq and it was mind-blowing how easy it is to make the dyn-b work lots better.

If you haven´t bought a schertler preamp, better go for a parametric (I think almost any preamp with a parametric eq will do) since it makes for a much more versatile setup than the original schertler. By this I mean you have more control if anything is not sounding like you want- especially this one honker mid frequency can easily be tamed like this, something that takes a lot of futzing with the pre-aII.

Best

Sidecar

 

[basdanne]

Just got the preonus. How do I get it to sound right? What settings should I use?

 

[basdanne]

Hello my bassfriends. I have tried the presonus together with my AI Coda R and my dynB for hours. I just cant get a nice sound out of it. Any advice? When i turn up the master on the amp (staying all flat on the amps eq and the presonus), I hear noice fom the speaker.

Maybe a preamp is better after all?

 

[bassist14]

Maybe a preamp is better after all?

take a look at the little letters in post#5

 

[MrSidecar]

Just got the preonus. How do I get it to sound right? What settings should I use?

Hi Daniel,

that mostly depends on your bass and the way you want it to sound, or better, the frequencies you want to cut out. There is a generic method of using a parametric preamp that is very useful for this. I don´t know if you know it, so here goes.

1. take one band at a time.
2. set the Q value so the frequency cut is a notch (the q value determines the breadth of the frequency curve´s bump, I don´t remember if high Q = narrow or low Q = narrow, consult the manual).
3. turn the cut/boost all the way up to the boost.
4. turn the freq all the way to the left, then play and turn it slowly up. You "sweep" through the freq spectrum of the band, and very quickly you should be able to hear what freq sounds particularly awful (as in "exaggerated version of the aspect of your un-equed sound you like least"). Take this frequency and cut it to your liking.
5. if content, stop here, if something´s still fishy, start over from step 2 again with the next band.

That has always worked for me failsafely, and you should be able to get a very good sound out of your equipment combination in little time.

From my experience, the versatility of 3 parametric bands outperforms the options the schertler preamp offers easily. You´re much more able to deal with weird mid honkers and lacking transparency than with just one fixed notch and bass and treble. Especially if the fixed notch by any chance is not adressing what sounds bad on your bass. I´ve read at least one post of a fellow whose bass didn´t have the heavy resonance problem on schertlers 180hz. Thus, the pre-AII left him out in the cold.

Lots of success. Report any progress, if you like.

Best,

Sidecar

 

[basdanne]

1. take one band at a time.
2. set the Q value so the frequency cut is a notch (the q value determines the breadth of the frequency curve´s bump, I don´t remember if high Q = narrow or low Q = narrow, consult the manual).
3. turn the cut/boost all the way up to the boost.
4. turn the freq all the way to the left, then play and turn it slowly up. You "sweep" through the freq spectrum of the band, and very quickly you should be able to hear what freq sounds particularly awful (as in "exaggerated version of the aspect of your un-equed sound you like least"). Take this frequency and cut it to your liking.
5. if content, stop here, if something´s still fishy, start over from step 2 again with the next band.

That has always worked for me failsafely, and you should be able to get a very good sound out of your equipment combination in little time.

Thank You Mr Sidecar!
I think I am getting somewhere now. When I am taking the first band, should all the levels on the other bands be at 12' o clock to be "neutral"? And when I take the 2:nd band, should I just leave the first band with the new setting, or "neutralize" it first (putting all the levels to 12 o'clock)? I'm not good at this, I know that...

Best regards
Danie

 

[MrSidecar]

Hi Daniel,

Thank You Mr Sidecar!
I think I am getting somewhere now. When I am taking the first band, should all the levels on the other bands be at 12' o clock to be "neutral"?

Yes. At least the +/- dB for the frequencies. The freqs don´t matter as long as you don´t cut or boost them.

And when I take the 2:nd band, should I just leave the first band with the new setting, or "neutralize" it first (putting all the levels to 12 o'clock)?

No, that doesn´t make sense. Leave the settings like you set them. Think of the frequency response as a curve, and when you change the second band, it might (at least with broader q-settings) affect the first band. So no, don´t neutralize it again.

I'm not good at this, I know that...

Best regards
Danie

No prob, hope it helps.

Best

Sidecar.

 

[basdanne]

Hi again!

When I am trying this method, I get a feedback from the amp. Should I cut the freq when the feedback starts?

And, when I have plugged the presonus in to the AI, I get a pretty anoying noise from the amp, even at low levels. Something I can do about it? Should i change settings on the amp?

When I have found the anoying frequence, should I leave the Q level at maximum?

Thank You for all help!/
Daniel

 

[MrSidecar]

Daniel,

you can try eliminating the feedback with the eq. Q should be max for starters, I´d say. Feedbacks I know are often rather narrow in frequency, and to affect the smallest possible part of the sound, leave q at max.

It´s a little strange though, with the feedback coming just with the presonus. Maybe you can turn up a little more, and thus another feedback comes along?

And I don´t know about noise with the preamp. I haven´t tried the presonus yet, but I´m having noise probs occasionally with the schertler preamp also. Just for starters make sure it´s not standing on the amp, check if any neon-lights are around and if you can do without, try messing with different ac sources. Can be many things, most likely the preamp is picking something up. Settings on the amp will most likely not help.

My AI Contra occasionally makes noise also, often I suspect condensate humidity (coming in from the cold outside) inside the circuit. Mine has relation to the switch you control the notch/hp filter with.


Or it´s a cable.. Who knows.

Keep me posted about the noise, as this might affect my buying decision. What kind of noise is it?

Best

Sidecar

 

[jmmcc]

And, when I have plugged the presonus in to the AI, I get a pretty anoying noise from the amp, even at low levels.

Hi Basdane

I´m curious about that noise

Is it a constant noise or it is kind of a distortion when you play?