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Help from Techies

Introvox said:
For an experiment, I want to record a frequency too high for the human ear....

Is it possible?...What gear should I use?

How would I know if it worked?...would meters in Sound Forge move?

Would playback through speakers be able to reproduce it?

So many questions...

Thoughts Please...

I would suggest using a midi file and then just pushing the pitch way up.

I imagine that it would register in a program that allows to to set what specific frequency ranges you want to monitor.

With regards to playback, you would need to check the frequency response of the speakers you plan to use. If they are capable then I imagine you would need to "feel/touch" the speaker itself to determine if movement was present and hence a sound was being produced even though it was out of your audiable hearing range.
 
Is it possible?
Yes. But not with commonly available equipment.

What gear should I use?
No idea. Perhaps you need to talk to a marine biologist or a bat scientist or something. Someone who knows about sonar would know all about this.

How would I know if it worked?
By using some kind of sonar receiver and an oscilloscope perhaps.

would meters in Sound Forge move?
It would depend on some specifics, but I would doubt it. I'm thinking in terms of limitations of the file format (does it even allow encoding of HF data?) and the DSP.

Would playback through speakers be able to reproduce it?
Would depend again on the speakers in question, but in general I'd have to say no. It would also depend on exactly how high you're going. Like, 30khz might be present, but 100khz will be so attenuated that it wouldn't register.

you would need to "feel/touch" the speaker itself to determine if movement was present and hence a sound was being produced
Even so, there'd be so little energy present that you might not even be able to feel it.


This is certainly an interesting question, Introvox. Why do you want to do this? More info might help us come to some sort of an answer for you. What is the sound source you wish to record?! That's got me intrigued!

I'd start by looking into ultra-sonic technologies and sonar systems. You can buy ultra-sonic transducer fairly easily (car reversing sensors etc.) and you could easily buy or build a tone generator that would create a constant ultra-sonic tone. But whether that suits your needs or not...

Certainly, a standard audio workstation won't do. The sound cards are filtered and the DSP has anti-aliasing filters that would wreak further havoc, and the file formats might not even allow data to be encoded to represent such high frequencies.

Common systems would treat it as interference and block it out or ignore it. You need a specifically designed system to record it.
 
Introvox said:
For an experiment, I want to record a frequency too high for the human ear....

Is it possible?...What gear should I use?

Google for 'Cool Edit 96' - it used to be free for download (don't know if it still is) and includes a very simple to use tone generator that will easily do frequencies outside normal hearing range. I've used it to test how much my ears have deteriorated :eek:
 
A band I'm in named Ariel recorded a track called ,"Three Bag Moon" before I joined the group. Bear in mind, this was about '90 or so and people still used tape decks that had meters on them. They recorded an intro with a 30kHz sine wave (done with an analog synth and calibrated with an oscillosocpe) on it so loud that it would peg the meters while the human listener would hear only chirping crickets. Dogs freaked out near it. The song was about werewolves, and the guys thought it would be funny.

Amazingly enough, the CD version doesn't have anywhere near the same effect, for what it's worth. My cat looked up when I played it, but that's about it.
 
Just read an article in the Australian magazine "Silicon Chip" that uses a balanced multiplier to downconvert sonic audio so that humans can "hear" it. It's pretty simple, and they're suggested uses included listening to bats and hearing gas leaks in a whole new way! Hmmm, useful! Might be worth googling for something similar.
 
There's a large Yahoo forum group called "naturerecordists" that can answer any question on this subject quite expertly. A few of my former colleagues from the fisheries research game hang out there, as well as many software geeks, recording system and analysis equipment manufacturers, and so on.
 
Just some random information. A cd has a sample rate of 44.1khz, that is important because it can only replicate a frequency of half that. So, 22.05 is the highest an audio cd can produce.... that's probably why those pet no longer wig out with the cd version of that werewolf song.

Secondly, I haven't seen speakers that would go above 28khz. So I am sure that some special tweeters would be required to make a noise much higher.
 
The human ear can only hear between 20Hz and 20,000Hz, but most people, since we live in such a noisy world, can't hear anything above 18Khz (18,000 Hz). Most recording software out there will record frquencies above or below the hearing range, but very few speakers will be able to reproduce these files back, at least not consumer products. Another thing to note is that the deal with the Sample Rate only represents how many snapshots of the analog waveform are taken per second to describe that waveform in the digital world. And the reason why this was done is that according to the Nyquist Theory the sample rate should be twice the frequency that we want to reproduce so this is why we chose 44.1Khz as the sample rate, to be able to reproduce from 20Hz to 20,000Hz, even though most of us can't hear them. To answer the other question you had, the answer is YES, the meters will move, and to create the frequecy all you need is an oscillator.
 
Well some audio programs(like Audacity, which also has a tone generator that can be used to make super high/low noises*) have the option of adjusting the bit rate prior to recording but then again its still dithered into 44100 before it's put on a cd.

*A friend and I used the tone generatore to make some serious brown noise once, and we could feel the computer speakers vibrating, it was so wierd and cool at the same time.