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Help! I've been ripped off.

#41
If you're going to accuse any business of stealing from you, you need to be 100% sure and be able to prove it.

Why would a guitar shop steal medium-grade, used controls out of your bass? To sell to someone else? By the time you figure in the labor cost to do that, the profit would be pretty small. Guitar repair shops in any city have a relatively small potential customer base (compared to a WalMart or a Target), and their reputation among the guitar and bass-playing community in that city is the single most important thing that determines whether they survive or not. Stealing from customers is like playing Russian roulette with your business.

As a previous poster said, I'm continually amazed at the mean things that people will do to each other, but there seems to be little motive here for them to do you wrong, and a fairly big risk for them.

Something that no-one here has mentioned is the potential for a simple accident on their part. If you have a preamp running off a 9-volt battery, the output from the active electronics will sit at approximately 4.5 volts DC and the AC signal will ride on that. Normally there's an output capacitor there to block the DC and allow the AC signal through. If you're running a DC current through a typical carbon control, it will always be scratchy as you turn it. AC signals are not so much a problem. If the guitar shop opened up the control compartment, then maybe when they reassembled everything, the output wire got bent so that the output DC-blocking capacitor was bypassed and put DC out to the control. Or the capacitor itself could have shorted out internally, some types fail that way normally.

Or, as another poster mentioned, nut or fret-filing dust could have gotten into the controls. If that was the case, they should be willing to spray a little contact cleaner into the pots for you for free.

It is possible that they stole your preamp and controls of course but I'd be *real* sure of the facts and eliminate what may have been mistakes or accidents before barging in there and threatening or implying physical violence. And figure out which other guitar shop will work on your instruments in the future if you burn your bridges with this one.
 
#42
barebones said:
A couple of thoughts jump out at me on this. One, have you ever looked inside the electronics cavity before? If you don't know what was in there before, you can't really accuse someone of stealing what was in there based on "feel." Two, I have a hard time imagining a shop going to the trouble of stealing a used preamp when they can get any preamp they want at cost.

Still, it COULD happen. Maybe if one of the lackeys working there has the same bass with a bad preamp or something and saw an easy replacement opportunity... But then I guess you're still facing the prospect of accusing someone of theft based on feel. As someone who spent three years catching shoplifters and employees ripping off the store, I can tell you that feel might get you started on an investigation but doesn't hold up as any sort of proof.
Click to expand...
I used to be a Service Writer at a car dealership and I worked there when the following event took place:
Yes, the dealership could have gotten any autoparts they wanted at cost. A customer brought a Dodge Ram Charger in for repair. The mechanic who was on the job also owned a Ram Charger. The mechanic was an employee of the company/shop NOT the owner...he couldn't get anything he wanted at cost. True story, this mechanic stole parts out of the customers truck and put them in his own and put the old, crappy parts out of his truck into the customers truck.

He got caught, was made to swap them parts back (and not get paid for the time). Would have been fired for it but he had some person dirt on the boss so he was just reprimanded.

Point is: it might not be "the shop" that swapped parts to sell to someone else. It's possible the tech took the parts for himself...assuming that any theft occured at all.

+1 on take (date stamped) photos of the electronics in the cavity and compare them to stock photos. If you were smart enough to keep your receipt from buying the bass and from the repair, you may be able to prove that you bought the bass NEW (with stock parts) and after the repair (reference DATED photo) the parts are no longer stock. Dated receipts can help you. It's all about the DATES, my friend..."before" and "after" don't exist without dates.

Or it might not be that serious. Could be that they shop just got some dust and crud in your electronics and dirtied up your pots. I'll bet that's what happened...nothing more.
 
#43
+1 that you need to open the thing up and see if you (or a good tech) can tell if anything is not kosher in there -- different parts, a spill, dust, whatever.

Depending on what you find, be aware of all available options: It may just be a matter of getting the store to fix whatever they messed up. If the store manager can be made to agree that something went wrong, he should be willing to make good - remember that stores do NOT like losing customers or the reputability that brings customers in.

Calling the police and making a criminal case of it is the extreme outside case; you need to be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt not only that an actual crime (like theft or fraud) was committed, but who committed it. The dishonest employee scenario is probably more likely than the store itself, but either way you would need proof.

Slightly less extreme would be a lawsuit, probably just in small claims court over a set of bass electronics. In a civil lawsuit you need to have the preponderance of the evidence on your side, not proof beyond a reasonable doubt. An expert witness (like another guitar tech) testifying that it had been messed with (with pictures and serial numbers and all that) and the work order showing that they indeed were the people opening up the bass would probably do it.

But the most reasonable and likely ally here should be the store owner. If he's any good as a businessman he's going to want happy customers and should do anything reasonable to get your bass playing right again. If he doesn't, you don't go back there, you be careful to warn all your musician buddies about the episode, and maybe even make a complaint with the Better Business Bureau or Chamber of Commerce.
 
#46
Luv you guys... I've read so many rational things here.

"Tasted" the battery, felt like lots of juice left, but popped a new one in anyway. Took a look at the controls. The preamp matches the one in the Ebay picture, and the part number on the list. Took some pictures, but don't know how to post them. I've never looked at the controls, so I don't know what's it supposed to look like.

I feel better seeing the Fender preamp, saw lots of powdery dust in the cavity, some ugly soldering. I forgot to mention new strings were installed. Could that be the difference? Am I an idiot? :eek: Go ahead, I can take it. ;)
 
#47
Man, never just blindly trust your s**t to shop, regardless of how reputable they are. Always know what is in your guitar/bass and be able to prove it with photos. Better yet, learn to do all this type of stuff yourself so you never have to worry about it.
 
#48
Vanceman said:
Luv you guys... I've read so many rational things here.

"Tasted" the battery, felt like lots of juice left, but popped a new one in anyway. Took a look at the controls. The preamp matches the one in the Ebay picture, and the part number on the list. Took some pictures, but don't know how to post them. I've never looked at the controls, so I don't know what's it supposed to look like.

I feel better seeing the Fender preamp, saw lots of powdery dust in the cavity, some ugly soldering. I forgot to mention new strings were installed. Could that be the difference? Am I an idiot? :eek: Go ahead, I can take it. ;)
Click to expand...

No, you're not an idiot :D but certainly, those could all make a difference in the sound. Clean up the cavity, and get the pots cleaned up and it'll probably be right as rain!

And I'm consistently amazed at the difference a new set of strings can make :)
 
#49
Vanceman said:
"Tasted" the battery, felt like lots of juice left, but popped a new one in anyway. Took a look at the controls. The preamp matches the one in the Ebay picture, and the part number on the list. Took some pictures, but don't know how to post them. I've never looked at the controls, so I don't know what's it supposed to look like.

I feel better seeing the Fender preamp, saw lots of powdery dust in the cavity, some ugly soldering. I forgot to mention new strings were installed. Could that be the difference? Am I an idiot? :eek: Go ahead, I can take it. ;)
Click to expand...

Lots of powdery dust and ugly soldering sounds about right for a Fender- they've always left too much rubbing compound in the cavities for me (I was a Fender dealer from 1977-1988). I suspect that it's not that the controls were any different from before, it's just that it's all new.

Also, the Fender literature may say "bone" nut, but it's not real bone. It's synthetic bone, and the new nut may or may not make any difference in sound (the nut CAN NOT affect the sound of fretted notes), but just having a nut cut correctly is a huge factor in the difference between a good set-up and a great one. Just about no factory nut I've seen since 1976 is cut right on any instrument (exceptions being Takamine guitars, most Lakland basses, and most Westerly RI made Guild guitars). It's time consuming to do right, and if you go one file-pass too far, you have to start over. So most factories leave the nut a little too high and people seem to accept it.

John
 
#50
From everything I've read here so far, there's no evidence strong enough to even speculate that the shop did something wrong, intentionally or unintentionally, let alone to walk into the shop with an accusation of theft. You simply must--both legally and ethically--have much stronger proof to suggest that someone committed a crime that would rank up in, oh, the top two or three terrible things humans do to each other. I mean, murder, rape... then stealing. Sound about right for the ranking? Am I missing something? I don't know, just going off the top of my head here.

Anyway, the point is theft is a serious charge. As someone who has actually had to interview thieves on a regular basis, I can tell you I never once went into an interview without a lengthy prior investigation and clear evidence that would hold up in a court of law. By the time I sat down to talk with someone, I already knew the what, when, where, and how, and the discussion merely focused on the WHY? Of course, that was my job. But I wouldn't make an accusation like that in my personal life either without the same level of proof. It's just not right to put someone through that based on a feeling.

Here's what I think your best bet is in this situation. Clearly you feel something has changed for the worse since the bass was in the shop. That much we're certain of, and I've been through that before myself. So, take the bass back to the shop and just kindly explain that the bass sounds different than it did before it was in the shop. Be clear that you're not accusing them of anything, but you'd appreciate their help trouble shooting the problem. Perhaps they'll discover they inadvertently did something wrong. Maybe they'll see something they hadn't noticed before. Or maybe they'll be able to show that some component, coincidentally, failed around the time you picked up the bass from them.

Now, how they handle things from that point on is up to them. I know if I were in their position--and I have been in similar situations--I'd swing everything in your favor and just take care of it for you. No hassles. Whatever the problem is, it can't be too costly or time consuming a fix. And then maybe I'd have you as a customer for life!
 
#52
Vanceman said:
Luv you guys... I've read so many rational things here.

"Tasted" the battery, felt like lots of juice left, but popped a new one in anyway. Took a look at the controls. The preamp matches the one in the Ebay picture, and the part number on the list. Took some pictures, but don't know how to post them. I've never looked at the controls, so I don't know what's it supposed to look like.

I feel better seeing the Fender preamp, saw lots of powdery dust in the cavity, some ugly soldering. I forgot to mention new strings were installed. Could that be the difference? Am I an idiot? :eek: Go ahead, I can take it. ;)
Click to expand...

First off, upload your photos to a free photo hosting service (I just use Facebook).

How to post pictures on TalkBass:

- right-click on the picture itself and from the pop-up menu choose 'Copy Image Location'.

- then left-click once in the TalkBass post window where you'd like the picture to appear.

- and then click the icon in the menu bar and paste the image link into the pop-up box.

You'll see what to do next. :)

BTW. I'm using Ubuntu 10.10 RC but the above procedure should work in Windows.
 
#53
JTE said:
Lots of powdery dust and ugly soldering sounds about right for a Fender- they've always left too much rubbing compound in the cavities for me (I was a Fender dealer from 1977-1988). I suspect that it's not that the controls were any different from before, it's just that it's all new.

Also, the Fender literature may say "bone" nut, but it's not real bone. It's synthetic bone, and the new nut may or may not make any difference in sound (the nut CAN NOT affect the sound of fretted notes), but just having a nut cut correctly is a huge factor in the difference between a good set-up and a great one. Just about no factory nut I've seen since 1976 is cut right on any instrument (exceptions being Takamine guitars, most Lakland basses, and most Westerly RI made Guild guitars). It's time consuming to do right, and if you go one file-pass too far, you have to start over. So most factories leave the nut a little too high and people seem to accept it.

John
Click to expand...

This is why I wish a zero fret was used by more manufacturers.
 
#54
barebones said:
From everything I've read here so far, there's no evidence strong enough to even speculate that the shop did something wrong, intentionally or unintentionally, let alone to walk into the shop with an accusation of theft. You simply must--both legally and ethically--have much stronger proof to suggest that someone committed a crime that would rank up in, oh, the top two or three terrible things humans do to each other. I mean, murder, rape... then stealing. Sound about right for the ranking? Am I missing something? I don't know, just going off the top of my head here.

Anyway, the point is theft is a serious charge. As someone who has actually had to interview thieves on a regular basis, I can tell you I never once went into an interview without a lengthy prior investigation and clear evidence that would hold up in a court of law. By the time I sat down to talk with someone, I already knew the what, when, where, and how, and the discussion merely focused on the WHY? Of course, that was my job. But I wouldn't make an accusation like that in my personal life either without the same level of proof. It's just not right to put someone through that based on a feeling.

Here's what I think your best bet is in this situation. Clearly you feel something has changed for the worse since the bass was in the shop. That much we're certain of, and I've been through that before myself. So, take the bass back to the shop and just kindly explain that the bass sounds different than it did before it was in the shop. Be clear that you're not accusing them of anything, but you'd appreciate their help trouble shooting the problem. Perhaps they'll discover they inadvertently did something wrong. Maybe they'll see something they hadn't noticed before. Or maybe they'll be able to show that some component, coincidentally, failed around the time you picked up the bass from them.

Now, how they handle things from that point on is up to them. I know if I were in their position--and I have been in similar situations--I'd swing everything in your favor and just take care of it for you. No hassles. Whatever the problem is, it can't be too costly or time consuming a fix. And then maybe I'd have you as a customer for life!
Click to expand...

That's all really good advice, IMO. If you go in accusingly and present the shop owner with that scenario you came up with, you're not likely to get much cooperation from him. I'll just add that without the evidence of a verifiable "before" picture, you aren't likely to get much traction from an "after" picture". If it's not stock under the compartment cover plate, how are you going to prove it was during that particular visit to that particular shop when the change happened?

You know, it's possible that there's some subjectivity at work here as well. Once you get it in your head that something has changed, many times it will sound that way to you whether or not the change is real.

I agree with others who have said that although an electronics swap by the shop is possible, it's not likely.
 

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