Help! Keyboardist is playing over me!

[jpmcbride]

Imma tell him my bros on this forum explained it to me so I don't come across as a B****. E

Ya, I wouldn't do that. Telling someone you got your info from random people on an online forum is not going to help your case. Just tell him he has to lay off the left hand because its conflicting with the bass. If he insists on working out lines that work for both of you tell him its not going to work and there is too much going on on the low end.

 

[retslock]

How important is this band to you? You may have to cut your losses and bale.
I’m old enough and wise enough to know that if you head into a conflict with ‘you’ messages, that is, ‘You’re doing this all wrong’ etc, you’ll get nowhere. ‘I’ messages such as ‘when you play the bass parts there is no room for me and I’m feeling very frustrated’ work much better. That is of course, if he is a reasonable human. You’re giving him the opportunity to act decently.
It may still not work. If that’s the case, ask yourself if can you find something better and do so. This band may not be where you need to be.

 

[Cal03]

Sadly I used to be one of these keyboard players before picking up bass, it was only afterwards that I learned just how awful my playing must have been. Practicing with a 5-octave keyboard also forced me to leave the low end duties to the bassist. I'm still nowhere near rootless voicings but at least I know better!

If it's coordinated, then having both keys and bass down there can work. For example, a written out line in octaves or unison. Otherwise best to stay clear of each other.

 

[Pocket Dave]

Since Fred is your senior, you must show the utmost respect.

"Fred, I like you, but with all due respect, if you don't keep your left hand in your lap, I gonna duct tape it there."

 

[Parzival]

Ask the keyboardist if he enjoys having a left hand.

Just kidding.

Maybe.

Here’s an unusual thing about me, I love synths and keyboards, but I hate keyboard players. Funny that.

 

[QweziRider]

..use a high-pass filter on the keyboard.

Daggone it, here I was all set to be a smart alec and suggest an HPF set to 500Hz and you beat me to the punch being serious. Glad I read the thread at least this far.

 

[pepj]

80?? good that he is still playing out but he is going to be pretty set in a very old and outdated mode of playing. File under gtr and bar chords as dangerous.

I think you have to spell it out pretty bluntly because people who dont get it, dont get it otherwise.

 

[HHudson]

HPF is actually a good idea.... for some E2 6 string guitarists as well ....

If musical & common sense & all verbal methods should fail, brute force, you can train people by giving them some of their own medicine (wear ear plugs while doing so).... The massive kit below belongs to @dc10bass for his Who tribute band... hope he does not mind... (I found a more modest Genz Benz GBE-750 and 2*212 can also have an equally effective educational use when dealing with 2 Marshal stacks & those who believe drop tuning is cool, if they cannot hear themselves in your sonic territory, they will avoid it... a HPF would of course be more sensible in the chain of those who wander without care...). Awareness rose, was understood & have remained mud free since (and @ a much more sensible volume to boot):

 

[Rojd]

One of these for his keyboard

 

[Mark Ambler]

The problem that some keyboard players have is that they started on piano. Piano players are generally trained to be soloists and tend to go into brain lock whenever it’s explained to them that once they’re in an ensemble they don’t have to play every single bloody note because they are now playing with other musicians and instruments.

About all I can say is “good luck” with your guy if he’s set in his ways. Whenever I got stuck with a keyboard player who had a heavy left hand things seldom changed even if the BL got on their case about it. Things would improve for awhile. But within a gig or two they’d revert back to being The Amazing Mister Ten Fingers unless they were jazz musicians. Jazzers are very good at listening to other players and giving them space.

'The problem that some keyboard players have is that they started on piano'. Ha Ha Brilliant

Perhaps suggest the keyboard player considers the role of a hammond organ in a group setting, it may have bass pedals, but they are not to be used when a bass player is playing, same with left hand keyboard bass. Having said that, rules are made to be broken, but that's almost always the case.

 

[Krakmann]

Salud!

Just wait it out. At 80, he'll eventually croak.

 

[Hawk256]

Glue his left hand to his lap.

 

[Slevage]

A couple of things could work:
1) The keyboardist should (mostly)
Stay out of the lower register.
2) The bassist and keys play exactly the same part. This usually requires a written arrangement.
I play in a community concert band where many of the lower instruments double parts in certain sections of the song.

 

[GreyBeard]

This is what happened in a buddy of mines band. The KB player kept doing the same thing, playing the bass parts and muddying up the whole bottom end. The bass player complained constantly about it but to no avail. One night the bass player asked the KB player to place his left hand on top of his keyboard for a second. While his hand was on the top of his KB, the BP duck taped his hand to the top of his keyboard. The rest of the band laughed their butts off and the KB player quit. He's back with the band now and doesn't use his left hand much these days.

 

[thunesBARROW]

It’s more in the tone than note choices. Guitar, bass, keys, and even drums all occupy the same frequency range. You can make a guitar sound like a bass and vice versa if you want, all with eq and amplification. Same goes for keys and any other instrument really. Just ask him (or the sound man) to turn down his low end a little, and voilà, problem mostly solved.

Sloppy playing and/or poor musical choices are another issue entirely (one that you may not be able to remedy, especially with an older player).

 

[GroovyBaby]

I'm new to playing bass in a band, both. And maybe it was ok before...gave me added confidence to have our keyboardist play a bass line at the same time. But it's gotten f'ing annoying. Band leader came in to help me. Told Fred that he could play bass during his songs, but not during our originals. Then Fred called me to ask to talk to find an arrangment that works "for both of us". As far as I'm concerned, the only arrangement that's going to work is for him to stop playing his poopy, monotonous, uncreative, squelching, boring-a$$ bass lines or play them an octave higher so I can even hear myself think. I'm sorry. I'm so frustrated. He's 80 years old and has been playing forever! How does he not know this is rude and how come little ol' me has to explain it to him?! Waaahhh! Thanks, I needed to whine. Anyhoo, please give me 3 or 5 bullet points I can tell him, and cc band leader on. Imma tell him my bros on this forum explained it to me so I don't come across as a B****. Even though I am definitely feeling like one. God I'm pissed! I never get pissed LOL

Just ask him not to play down low. We have a new keyboard player who occasionally starts walking all over my lines with his left hand. I just politely ask him to not play the low keys as it muddys up the low end and I can’t hear my bass and then he stops. He said “not the first time I’ve been told that.” When playing if he starts to do it, I’ll hold up my left hand and then put it behind my back. He laughs and adjusts accordingly

 

[Acoustic356]

Learn some theory, then mess with him. The Bass can turn a C into an Am by choosing what you want the root to be. On his originals, I would play an alternate bass line that fits with the song, but messes with his part.

#ImNotReallyThisPassiveAggressiveInRealLife

 

[jhfishn]

Yeah that gets tough

Have to deal with that all too often

I worked with a band and had to leave because it just became to laborious to (believe it or not) play with heavy synth bass tracks because the leader liked it “fat”

it was LOUD and in most cases wrong and I just couldn’t go there anymore so the thing to do was end the gig

amazing how wrong some of these purchased tracks can be and then be forced to either play what’s there or fight it …. I chose a different path and got out of there

sometimes that’s the answer


Just a thought here …. Did you maybe consider recording it and then letting him listen to the dog fight? Probably not going to make a difference but it might work. I’ve never had that luck though. LOL.

 

[Jason Sypher]

Eighty is not going to change. But you could take up his offer and show him directly what is the conflict.

 

[InhumanResource]

I'm new to playing bass in a band, both. And maybe it was ok before...gave me added confidence to have our keyboardist play a bass line at the same time. But it's gotten f'ing annoying. Band leader came in to help me. Told Fred that he could play bass during his songs, but not during our originals. Then Fred called me to ask to talk to find an arrangment that works "for both of us". As far as I'm concerned, the only arrangement that's going to work is for him to stop playing his poopy, monotonous, uncreative, squelching, boring-a$$ bass lines or play them an octave higher so I can even hear myself think. I'm sorry. I'm so frustrated. He's 80 years old and has been playing forever! How does he not know this is rude and how come little ol' me has to explain it to him?! Waaahhh! Thanks, I needed to whine. Anyhoo, please give me 3 or 5 bullet points I can tell him, and cc band leader on. Imma tell him my bros on this forum explained it to me so I don't come across as a B****. Even though I am definitely feeling like one. God I'm pissed! I never get pissed LOL

I know a bassist who presented the keyboardist with one of these to resolve a similar issue.