Help! Keyboardist is playing over me!

[lermgalieu]

What if there were two bass players? Yes, almost never a thing. Totally overkill muddy.

But yet sometimes it is. I was in a band with two bassists in the 90's. The other bassist was a little more limited in the upper register than me, so we tended to either play in unison (largely slap - hey, it was the 90's) or he would play the "bass line" and I would play a melodic figure up high. It was interesting and challenging, but definitely required planning and thought or yeah, it would have sounded terrible.

 

[Boundary Effect]

Keyboard player here. Been there, done that. And I hear a lot of what's already been said in this thread. His changing will be difficult. I've played for years with a guitar player who learns songs not guitar parts. So he plays the intro to Cream - Badge and the organ line in Talking Heads (version) - Take Me to the River and so on. Nothing anyone says changes that. Or more simply, have you ever known a guitar player who can play 'Tacit?' Rare, that one.

Over twenty years ago when I got back into playing, I took a lesson from a respected local jazz cat. First thing he criticized, "You have a bass player. Why are you playing all that poopie down there?" His constructive suggestion was to learn to build my voicing off of the third or seventh (blues) or other chord tones other then the root. It took a year of work before I could do so fluently. Now my keyboard playing sounds more "out there" when it's really not. The only issue I found with that is when I am playing with what I call the, "Lead Bass Player."

 

[Egg250]

If the keys are playing a bass line, make up your own. Get creative. If anyone objects, explain there is no need for the bass and keys to play identical parts.

 

[pepj]

If the keys is not very experienced in band situations and yep, we know he is 80 but time on the instrument does not necessarily mean a whole lot, imv in itself, then I can imagine the left hand is not going to be strong in terms of what they play...its generally a messy rhythm bounce as opposed to a distinct part, so depends how confrontational you need or want to be.
I doubt your experience would allow you to say 'are you going to play the line properly'..meaning in a useful context, which might get across the point that it is 'wrong' so you could just stop playing when you rehearse, to make the point its not working. This does rather mean your basslines need to work better, or you are off a gig..

 

[Chrome Dome]

Had an experience with unfortunately with Praise and Worship leader about the key board player,about playing all the bass lines. Also Pastor of the Church's wife was the key board player. Mentioned that the volume of the bass on the digital piano was set too loud also. To keep from causing trouble actually turned volume completely off on the bass guitar,and plucked the strings so it looked like I was playing,and lights were still on the amp. Long story short no longer there.

 

[mborn]

There is another way. Tell the keyboard player he can have the Bass lines. I will bring my D12, double neck pedal steel. The steel has most of the range of the keyboard. (except the far ends) Then play all over the middle of the keyboard. (Right between his hands) Long slides and slow pedal changes will drive a keyboard player crazy. They don’t like the micro tones between notes.

Steel amps have lots of head room and usually 15” speakers. A keyboard amp can’t touch a steel amp. I did this to a harmonica player who played continuously over the vocals and every other instrument break. Stomping him every time to played a break got his attention and he quit doing that.

 

[Amajew]

F EM... Point a 412 at high volume at him...

I dealt with this a long time ago in a Hard Rock cover / original band. The keyboardist was an exceptional musician, actually better than the rest of the band and he'd play all the bass notes and just shred scales in songs. It was annoying as f!! I talked to the band leader and in a short time the keyboardist got booted cause he wasn't fitting into the mold..

It's pretty simple here... stay in your lane, or find another gig

 

[Kael]

I used to own an Electro-harmonix POG. I would take it to gigs that had keyboardists and set it to make my bass sound like a pipe organ. When/if the keyboard player started venturing into my conic territory, strumming a few chords on a 6 string bass that now sounds like a pipe organ usually got their attention. Then I offered them the choice of getting out of my area or I was going to live in their area. It was like fighting fire with a thermonuclear warhead.

This tactic came to an end when a dog I used to have took a big runny crap on my pedal board. It got down into the faders. No way I was going to clean it up. I gave it away in the classifieds on here, as is.

 

[lermgalieu]

Keyboard player here. Been there, done that. And I hear a lot of what's already been said in this thread. His changing will be difficult. I've played for years with a guitar player who learns songs not guitar parts. So he plays the intro to Cream - Badge and the organ line in Talking Heads (version) - Take Me to the River and so on. Nothing anyone says changes that. Or more simply, have you ever known a guitar player who can play 'Tacit?' Rare, that one.

Over twenty years ago when I got back into playing, I took a lesson from a respected local jazz cat. First thing he criticized, "You have a bass player. Why are you playing all that poopie down there?" His constructive suggestion was to learn to build my voicing off of the third or seventh (blues) or other chord tones other then the root. It took a year of work before I could do so fluently. Now my keyboard playing sounds more "out there" when it's really not. The only issue I found with that is when I am playing with what I call the, "Lead Bass Player."

Good comments. I played piano in my youth, now only on demos, but I note that it's MUCH easier to play all the roots on piano. To play inversions and/or leave off the root takes work and thought. If I am doing keys on a demo, I have to map this all out and practice it, whereas I could play it with the roots on a single take. You have to be good at what you are doing to do it right and leave room for the bass. I find alot of these bass heavy keyboardists (not all) to be just lazy. But some are just not used to leaving that room and came up playing in some other context or musical style where it was appropriate to be playing lots of bass notes.

 

[Hasty]

There is another way. Tell the keyboard player he can have the Bass lines. I will bring my D12, double neck pedal steel. The steel has most of the range of the keyboard. (except the far ends) Then play all over the middle of the keyboard. (Right between his hands) Long slides and slow pedal changes will drive a keyboard player crazy. They don’t like the micro tones between notes.

Steel amps have lots of head room and usually 15” speakers. A keyboard amp can’t touch a steel amp. I did this to a harmonica player who played continuously over the vocals and every other instrument break. Stomping him every time to played a break got his attention and he quit doing that.

That's a pretty specific solution that most of us probably couldn't use and would likely get us fired.

As an aside, I briefly played in a band where the lead guitar player used a Peavey steel guitar amp. I hated that amplifier so much. Every time he turned it on, the volume was set to 11. It was a miserable experience and I quit after our first gig.

 

[bdplaid]

This tactic came to an end when a dog I used to have took a big runny crap on my pedal board. It got down into the faders.

LOL! I think your dog had the right idea. Dogs always have the right idea.

 

[BOOG]

For a couple of years I played with a (early years) classically trained pianist that in his now later years got into the cover band scene. The first couple of rehearsal sessions he was ham fisted on the left. That second session, I flat out told him he needs to move up an octave or the band doesn’t need me there. Fortunately, the crowd is mature and respectful toward each other and adjustments were made. We turned out to be really compatible and I miss working with him since he retired from playing out. Mutual respect, honesty and communication are key to the solution.

 

[BassBrass]

Had an experience with unfortunately with Praise and Worship leader about the key board player,about playing all the bass lines. Also Pastor of the Church's wife was the key board player. Mentioned that the volume of the bass on the digital piano was set too loud also. To keep from causing trouble actually turned volume completely off on the bass guitar,and plucked the strings so it looked like I was playing,and lights were still on the amp. Long story short no longer there.

"Paster of the Church's wife" is my next song title. If Bernie Worrell is playing the famous Lead Bass part, the bass player turns on a octaver and maybe does a little solo in the breakdown.

 

[ChrisPbass]

get an octave up pedal and start playing over the guitar player. It will all work out.

 

[J-Mags]

I'd assume that he's acting in good faith when he says "works for both of us." Then if he won't clear out some room for you, start playing along with his right hand. If he's covering the low end, there's no reason for him to be down there. You can be expressing yourself on the high frets!

 

[Wesley R]

In 1975, in an extremely low volume band, in a dinner club setting, the keys guy went a little nuts on the bass part. When the BL gave me one helluva look, my hands were not on the bass. We immediately went to break and I got chewed out real bad. The guitarist stuck up for me, and I tried explaining it wasn't me.
That was my second to the last gig in that well band.

 

[51PRI]

...I used to work with an elderly pianist who played a lot with his left hand...he was ever so slightly out of tune....

HE was out of tune?

....At full rehearsal, bring it to the attention of the entire band, and have him play the songs with you not playing....

Also try playing the songs with his left hand in his pocket.

My 3pc blues band wants to add one...not only do I not want to share the money or simplify my parts....I fear this. I've been there it sucks.

A 3 piece blues bands NEEDS a keyboard player. IMO it's worth the money.

I’ve got a couple things to add…..

What if there were two bass players? Yes, almost never a thing. Totally overkill muddy.

You could take it as an opportunity to try bass playing very differently. Usually we take it for granted we have to nail down a strong, full line that carries the song. But that’s too much here. So, you can sit back and act like a guitar player, playing intermittently.....

I read that Joni Mitchell considered adding a second bassist because Jaco played so weird, so...play like Jaco.

If the keys are playing a bass line, make up your own. Get creative. If anyone objects, explain there is no need for the bass and keys to play identical parts.

Play like Jaco. Lead bass.

I played some gigs (on guitar) with a guitar player who played a bass. He played what might be called reaction bass. He never played on the 1 downbeat, ever. He played I don't know what in reaction to what everyone else was playing. I didn't enjoy that because there wasn't another bassist.

 

[Hasty]

This thread reminded me of a chart I played a long time ago with great composer notes on the sheet.

 

[lermgalieu]

This thread reminded me of a chart I played a long time ago with great composer notes on the sheet.

View attachment 5189637

That's great.

 

[Koshchei]

He’s not gonna stop…it’s almost an irreparable defect. He’ll just keep slamming the keyboard with his left hand. The BL said it was okay during his tunes?!? Find a more conducive project.

Riis

Pianist vs Keyboardist. They're not the same thing.